[Sue]

"Sarah Vaughan" wrote in message
> What I'm after here is not advice, but experiences. If you transitioned
> a baby from co-sleeping to sleeping in own cot and/or from your room to
> own room some time between the ages of 6 months and 15 or so months, I
> would love to hear your story of how you did it, how it went, whether
> you feel your approach worked, and what you feel in retrospect was a bad
> idea or should have been done differently.

DD1: Slept in a bassinet at the end of our bed until around 7 months. She
was then transferred into her crib in her own room. She would usually only
wake up once during the night to be fed.

DD2: Same thing, bassinet at the end of our bed until around 6-7 months old.
Transitioned her into DD1's bedroom in her own crib. Had a night time
routine of a feed, read a book, rock and then put to bed. Both were awake
when put to bed and they fell asleep on their own.

DD3: Co-slept out of necessity for the first month of life, transitioned to
bassinet in our room and then transitioned into crib in her sisters' room at
6-7 months old. They all slept in the same room for quite a while until we
moved and then the younger two girls slept together and the oldest has had a
room to herself ever since. Kept the routine of rocking, singing a song,
read a book and on alternate nights they would have a bath.

All the girls were basically sleeping through the night at around 8-9
months. Due to weight gaining problems, DD1 was taking a supplemental bottle
to bed with her and we transitioned her away from that bottle at around 15
months old. I feel my approach worked well for us. I didn't want to
co-sleep, but clearly DD3 needed it, as she would not sleep for that first
month. I don't think I would have done anything different. I did have pretty
decent sleepers and I consider myself extremely lucky.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

Archived from group: misc>kids

[Akuvikate]

Sarah Vaughan wrote:
>
> What I'm after here is not advice, but experiences. If you
transitioned
> a baby from co-sleeping to sleeping in own cot and/or from your room
to
> own room some time between the ages of 6 months and 15 or so months,
I
> would love to hear your story of how you did it, how it went, whether

> you feel your approach worked, and what you feel in retrospect was a
bad
> idea or should have been done differently. I'd also be really
> interested to hear what happened about night feeds - how long did the

> baby keep waking up for them, how often, and how did you handle this?

> (And what was baby eating during the day at this point - EBF,
formula,
> mainly on solids?)

At around 6 months the Bug would only sleep with or on me period --
naps were in my lap, and we had the same bedtime out of necessity. If
I tried to put her down and sneak off it didn't work. Over the next 6
months she started napping on her own (usually nursed to sleep) and
sleeping the first strech of the night in her pack and play and then
crib when we got one. When she first woke to feed a few hours later
she'd come into bed with us. At 13 months I started my medical
residency and desperately needed good sleep at home, since I don't get
it when on call. About 13.5 months we moved the crib into her room and
basically kept the same pattern (start crib, come to bed) for a week or
two. At 14 months we did cry-it-out. Almost more of a problem than
the night waking at that point was that it took forever to get her to
fall asleep, and cry-it-out took care of that. She cried 45 minutes
the first night, about 10 minutes the second night, and then hardly at
all after that. For the first week or so we'd still go in and get her
when she woke at night. We then did "cry-it-out" for the night
wakings, though it was really more like "briefly fuss and grumble it
out". She quickly became a pretty good sleeper. Now she sometimes
protests when initially put down for bed, but for the most part if she
cries it's because something's really wrong. It's become a tremendous
treat to sleep with her in the bed, though we all get wretched sleep
when we do. We sometimes indulge in it anyway when it feels like I've
been away at work too much and we both need the snuggle time more than
the sleep.

I don't really have major regrets. I probably would have done cry it
out a little sooner (10-12 months?) had I known it would be so easy.
Again, it wasn't so much about the night waking but getting her down to
sleep was a brutal struggle for a few months once she stopped falling
asleep nursing.

Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel
and the Bug, 21 months

[Sidheag McCormack]

Sarah Vaughan writes:

> This is me thinking way ahead, as usual - as several people have
> probably noticed, I do like to think out strategies for potential
> issues/problems of parenthood well in advance rather than having to wing
> it when a situation comes up. This has its pros and cons, but it's the
> way I do things.

Me too

First a remark: when our DS was around your DS's age he was sleeping pretty
well, maybe waking twice per night. This fell apart when he was about 6/7
months, and we had a long, long stretch of him waking every hour or so (a
night with two two hour stretches was a very good one for a long time).
Turns out that this is a really common pattern, whatever strategies people
are using. So don't be too surprised if it turns out that there's a
mountain between Point A and Point B, though I hope there won't be.

> how you did it, how it went,

We had DS in a cosleeper/bedside cot (3 sided) until we moved him into his
own room when he was around 14 months. We hadn't planned to move him - the
original plan was to have him in the cosleeper until he asked for his own
bed - but I had begun to suspect that some of his night wakings might be
caused by us disturbing him. With hindsight, I think probably they weren't.

We had a double futon mattress on the floor in his room; he was already
used to napping on it. We went away for Christmas and took the opportunity
of the break in routine to make the switch, i.e. before we went away he was
in our room and when we got back he was in his own.

For the first two weeks after the switch we didn't bring him into our room
at all in the night, because we thought that would be confusing. I went to
him when he woke, and if I was too tired to want to go back to my bed I
stayed there after resettling him. He continued to wake on the same pattern
as he'd had before the switch, to our disappointment, except that the first
waking moved back a bit - he had been waking about our bedtime most nights,
and that may well have been caused by the disturbance of us going to bed.
After the first two weeks, our next attempt at a plan was that we'd bring
him into our room on his first waking. However, that didn't work.
Transferring him from his room to ours seemed to wake him up thoroughly and
disconcert him for the rest of the night. So we were then stuck with me
doing quite a lot of cosleeping in his room, like it or not, because I
couldn't cope with lots of treks back and forth. The one thing we'd gained
so far was that we could go to bed with the light on, which I found a big
plus - I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed reading in bed!

About two months after we made the switch, his sleep fairly suddenly
improved. Possibly this was a delayed reaction to the switch of rooms, but
I think it's probably independent of it, TBH. Nothing else seems to have
changed; I think it's just a maturity thing. With hindsight, it might have
worked better to make the switch at 16 rather than 14 months. He quite
suddenly began to be much better at resettling himself, and he began to go
to sleep from fully awake without a breast in his mouth (he'd always come
off before he was completely asleep, but now he'll come off, look around,
smile at me and then go to sleep). He's had a terrible time with colds and
molars lately, but I think once that's all over he'll probably sleep
through regularly. Anyway: current state is that on a good night (e.g. last
night) he'll sleep through from his bedtime until between 4.30 and 5.30,
then I go in and he'll have a long feed, then we both go back to sleep for
another couple of hours. On a bad night, he'll wake at midnight, I'll go
and feed and resettle him and go back to my room, he'll wake again around
2, I'll go to him and spend the rest of the night there. Basically I stay
in his room rather than going back to my own if it's the second or later
waking of the night or if it's after about 3.30; that seems to work best to
get me enough sleep. (My bed is more comfortable but the trip is killing,
so it's a trade-off.)

> whether you feel your approach worked, and what you feel in retrospect
> was a bad idea or should have been done differently.

Overall I think it might have worked better if I'd had a little more
patience and left it another couple of months, but I don't think I could
have known that and I'm certainly not claiming there's a magic age for all
babies. I definitely like the fact that he's on a futon mattress not in a
cot. With hindsight it would have been worthwhile to get a good double
mattress to put on the floor instead of the futon though - the futon is not
ideal for my back though DS seems to sleep as well there as anywhere.

> I'd also be really interested to hear what happened about night feeds -
> how long did the baby keep waking up for them, how often, and how did
> you handle this?

Covered above I think. FWIW, though, I don't believe babies wake up "for"
night feeds. Don't know about you, but when I wake up at night, I'm not
aware that I'm waking for anything. I've never understood why babies are
supposed to be different.

> (And what was baby eating during the day at this point - EBF, formula,
> mainly on solids?)

Eating lots of solids, in nursery 9am to 4.30pm ish, also still
breastfeeding a lot when not at nursery.

HTH,

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

[Sidheag McCormack]

FUMOP:

It may be worth saying that many things stayed the same between DS sleeping
in our room and in his: he was in the same sleeping bag, same animals and
blanket around, same bedtime routine, etc. That may have been important: if
transferring from cosleeping with adult sheet and blanket to cot with cot
bedding, it might perhaps be harder.

Also rereading what you wrote I realise that you may not think that babies
"wake up for" night feeds in the way I was commenting on, either - I may
have been reading a suggestion into what you wrote that wasn't there. Sorry
if so, I'm a bit touchy about it, since so many people seem to think that
DS would sleep through the night if only I'd night wean him. I really
don't want to, partly because I've read one too many stories about babies
weaning completely after the mother forces night weaning. (And I've also
read plenty of stories of babies who still wake after night weaning, and of
it then being much harder to get them back to sleep, and my instinct is
that that's what DS would do.)

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

[Mary Ann Tuli]

Sarah Vaughan wrote:
> This is me thinking way ahead, as usual - as several people have
> probably noticed, I do like to think out strategies for potential
> issues/problems of parenthood well in advance rather than having to wing
> it when a situation comes up. This has its pros and cons, but it's the
> way I do things.
>

This is what we did:

- DS started off in his own cot in his own room and would join us in bed
on his first waking.
- the first waking got later and later until DS didn't join us until the
morning. This was at just turned 2.

Mary Ann

[Linz]

"Sarah Vaughan" wrote in message @samael.demon.co.uk...

> What I'm after here is not advice, but experiences. If you
> transitioned a baby from co-sleeping to sleeping in own cot and/or
> from your room to own room some time between the ages of 6 months
> and 15 or so months, I would love to hear your story of how you did
> it, how it went, whether you feel your approach worked, and what
> you feel in retrospect was a bad idea or should have been done
> differently. I'd also be really interested to hear what happened
> about night feeds - how long did the baby keep waking up for them,
> how often, and how did you handle this? (And what was baby eating
> during the day at this point - EBF, formula, mainly on solids?)

We had YoungBloke in a carrycot by the bed from birth, and once I felt
comfortable sleeping with him in the bed with us then when he woke for
a feed I tended to bring him into bed and co-sleep. Once he was too
big for the carrycot (around 4 months, I think) we put the proper cot
at the end of our bed and continued as before, but sometimes I'd stay
awake long enough to put him back in the cot when the feed was over.

When he was 6 months we moved the cot into the nursery in the hopes
that he would stop waking up when we came to bed, since we thought we
were waking him up. It didn't make any difference, but the transition
was made. It was around that time that I stopped dealing with /every/
waking since YB probably didn't need a BF an hour after the previous
one. And OldBloke and I discovered independently that trying to put YB
back in the cot once he was asleep woke him up and he'd get quite
hysterical even though he'd been able to settle himself in our room.
So we took to lying him on the double futon mattress that was on the
nursery floor, and he'd go to sleep. At which point we gave up with
the cot entirely and he's slept on the mattress since he was about 9
months, I guess. It means that nightfeeds are really easy - I go and
lie down with him and he feeds. When he's done either he's asleep or I
stroke him till he goes to sleep, or I'm asleep anyway and he gives
up.

YB is 17 months. He still has at least one feed between 10pm and 6am,
sometimes more. Last night he fed at 10, 2 and 5.30, which remains the
worst feed since we get up at 6.

At some point we're probably going to start alternating who goes to
him when he wakes up - he doesn't need 3hourly feeding during the day
so he shouldn't at night - but we've not got that desperate yet...

[Phoebe & Allyson]

Sidheag McCormack wrote:

> I'm a bit confused - if yours nursed at night longer than anytime, why were
> they weaned when they didn't want first thing in the morning?

Not the OP, but IME, the first nursing in the morning is still a
night-nursing in my eyes. At our house, it starts around 7:30am and
continues mostly without interruption until 9:30, when I get up. (If
there's a significant interruption, I get up earlier, and there's no
more milk until I get home at night, which makes it less likely she'll
let go for any reason in the morning.)

If Caterpillar didn't want first thing in the morning, I'd also conclude
she was weaned. And since she doesn't mind going from waking to bedtime
with no milk if I'm not around, she fits in the "has more extended
night-nursing than day-nursing" definition of nursing longer at night
than anytime.

Phoebe

[Sidheag McCormack]

Rosalie B writes:

> Night weaning leading to weaning. Or rather giving up the feedings in
> the middle of the night AKA sleeping through leading to total weaning..
> All of mine slept through early (i.e. by about 3 months) and none of
> them were weaned for some time after that.

Oh, I didn't mean that not eating at night, per se, led to weaning - that's
not what I've seen at all. What I was talking about is situations where the
mother deliberately night weans the baby, i.e., refuses to feed at night
even though the baby wants to. That's what does, anecdotally, sometimes
seem to lead to complete weaning. And I stick by my suggestion that
breastfeeding is a symbol of love to babies, though it may be unprovable.
It's certainly not only about food, at least not for my baby.

Your kind of night weaning, where the baby doesn't eat at night because
s/he doesn't wake (enough) and need to, is what I'm aiming for - and we are
getting there, fingers crossed.

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

[Larry McMahan]

In misc.kids.breastfeeding Sarah Vaughan wrote:

: What I'm after here is not advice, but experiences. If you transitioned
: a baby from co-sleeping to sleeping in own cot and/or from your room to
: own room some time between the ages of 6 months and 15 or so months, I
: would love to hear your story of how you did it, how it went, whether
: you feel your approach worked, and what you feel in retrospect was a bad
: idea or should have been done differently. I'd also be really
: interested to hear what happened about night feeds - how long did the
: baby keep waking up for them, how often, and how did you handle this?
: (And what was baby eating during the day at this point - EBF, formula,
: mainly on solids?)

OK. Clara first. She slept in our queen sized bed with us until
between 7 and 8 months. At that time we set up a single (twin) bed
right next to our queen, and she slept there (and continued to nurse
3 to 5 times a night. When Monika got pregnant at 13 months, we
decided to more Clara to her own room. At 15 months we moved her
to a single bed in her own room. This was the hardest part. We were
also brushing her teeth at that time and had a rule of no nursing
after she brused her teeth until she woke up in the middle of the
night. I would rock her to sleep in her room. For the first three
or four days, she would cry to be nursed. After that, she was OK
with me rocking her to sleep. At that time, when she wanted to nurse
Monika would go nurse her in her room. (We moved her to a single bed
in her room). We would let her come to our room after it got light.

With Niel, we did the same thing about moving him onto a single bed
next to ours at 7 months, but we did not move him into his own room
until about 2 1/2 years. There was not crying in his case.

Hope this helps,
Larry

[hollyml]

With my DS, I typically put him down at bedtime, after nursing him to
sleep, and then brought him into my bed when he woke (because I'm way
too lazy to try to get a baby back to sleep any other way than nursing
lying down!). For the first 7 months or so he started the night in a
bassinet next to my bed but then he outgrew it so we put him in the
crib in another room. On nights when I was really tired, we'd just
co-sleep from the start because he was a lot less likely to wake up
during the night that way! But even when he started in the crib, other
than a few bouts with teething he generally only woke once during the
night, so it wasn't too hard for me to just go get him and nurse him
back down.

So, anyway, the situation isn't exactly analagous to yours. But the
way we made the transition was simple -- we just moved him. He
continued to spend about half the night in our bed, most nights, until
he was 2 years old, at which point we got him a twin bed, and put away
the crib. Thereafter, when he woke at night, instead of waking fully,
realizing he was alone, and crying loudly until I came to get him, at
which point the only way to get him back to sleep was nursing -- he'd
half-wake, climb out of bed, toddle into our room, climb into bed next
to me and go back to sleep without waking me. I'd just find him there
in the morning. Heaven. I wished we'd gone to a big boy bed much
earlier!

Without our really doing anything to encourage it, he gradually began
joining us later in the morning or sometimes not at all. When his
sister was born we taught him to climb into bed at our feet, because I
didn't want him to squish the baby and because there just wasn't room
for all 4 of us side by side -- but he was 3 yrs by that time and coped
with it pretty well. He's 4 now and typically only gets into bed with
us on weekends when we're still in bed later in the a.m.

With DD, we won't use a crib at all because we don't have space for
one. (Only two bedrooms, and insufficient space in the kids' room for
a twin bed AND a crib.) So DD just sleeps with us. (We do have a
bassinet but haven't used it a whole lot -- she has a much less regular
schedule and doesn't nurse to sleep as easily as DS did at that age.)
When she's old enough for the trundle bed under DS' bed, we'll try
putting her to bed there and see how it goes.

Holly

[Ericka Kammerer]

Sarah Vaughan wrote:


> Basically, what I'm
> wanting to know are the chances that Jamie will still be wanting nursing
> in the night even once he's taking more solids, so that I can plan how
> to deal with this. (The main issue is convincing DH that this will be a
> problem and that I'm not just being neurotic.)

Well, all of mine were eating solids long before they gave
up night nursing (they stopped night nursing at 15, 15, and 19 months).
By the time they started solids, however, they were down to one (or
two, at most) night feedings.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Sarah Vaughan]

In message , Sidheag McCormack
writes
>Also rereading what you wrote I realise that you may not think that
>babies "wake up for" night feeds in the way I was commenting on, either
>- I may have been reading a suggestion into what you wrote that wasn't
>there. Sorry if so, I'm a bit touchy about it, since so many people
>seem to think that DS would sleep through the night if only I'd night
>wean him. I really don't want to, partly because I've read one too many
>stories about babies weaning completely after the mother forces night
>weaning.

I'm actually not sure what it is you think I mean that you disagree
with, so sorry if I'm being dense on this one. Basically, what I'm
wanting to know are the chances that Jamie will still be wanting nursing
in the night even once he's taking more solids, so that I can plan how
to deal with this. (The main issue is convincing DH that this will be a
problem and that I'm not just being neurotic.)

> (And I've also read plenty of stories of babies who still wake after
>night weaning, and of it then being much harder to get them back to
>sleep, and my instinct is that that's what DS would do.)

Ah, that's useful to know, thanks - I can tell DH that.

Thanks to everyone for your stories. To answer a couple of specific
points in posts that didn't download onto my computer but that I read on
Google:

Lara - Actually, that is indeed helpful to know, because we're moving
house when DS is 7 mts & I'd thought that would make things more
difficult. Good to know that this won't necessarily be the case.

Cathy - Oh, I didn't mean that we were planning to transition him
exactly at 15 months. That was why I said 'by the time he's somewhere
around 15 months....' - we're happy with the idea of it being either
earlier or at least a bit later. But we do both feel that by the time
he's getting into the toddler stage, we'd like him to be in his own room
for at least part of the night (I think DH is shooting for the whole
night, but I'm not sure about that).


All the best,

Sarah

--
"I once requested an urgent admission for a homeopath who had become depressed
and taken a massive underdose" - Phil Peverley

[Clisby]

Sarah Vaughan wrote:

> In message , Sidheag McCormack
> writes
>
>> Also rereading what you wrote I realise that you may not think that
>> babies "wake up for" night feeds in the way I was commenting on,
>> either - I may have been reading a suggestion into what you wrote that
>> wasn't there. Sorry if so, I'm a bit touchy about it, since so many
>> people seem to think that DS would sleep through the night if only I'd
>> night wean him. I really don't want to, partly because I've read one
>> too many stories about babies weaning completely after the mother
>> forces night weaning.
>
>
> I'm actually not sure what it is you think I mean that you disagree
> with, so sorry if I'm being dense on this one. Basically, what I'm
> wanting to know are the chances that Jamie will still be wanting nursing
> in the night even once he's taking more solids, so that I can plan how
> to deal with this. (The main issue is convincing DH that this will be a
> problem and that I'm not just being neurotic.)
>

I don't know about its being a problem - but my son usually nursed at
least once in the night until he was about 18 months old. He'd been
enthusiastically eating solids since a little past 5 months, so I
wouldn't automatically assume that eating plenty of solids = night weaning.

Clisby

[Nikki]

Sarah Vaughan wrote:

>Basically, what I'm
> wanting to know are the chances that Jamie will still be wanting
> nursing in the night even once he's taking more solids, so that I can
> plan how to deal with this. (

IME quantity of solids was not related to night nursing at all. I had one
that ate a below average amount of solids, and one that ate an above average
amount of solids. They both nursed like crazy all night long until I forced
the issue of night weaning at 18 months.

I haven't responded previously because it was very difficult for my kids to
move out of the family bed and we ended up doing it much later then the time
frame you gave because of it. It was wasn't so smooth so I didn't have any
advice Personally if you are really opposed to it being a long term
situation I'd start working on it now. Some kids *do* move out easily and
some don't. I don't think you really have any way of knowing which kind of
baby you've got at this point - unless maybe they are sleeping through
already.

Night weaning, while nice for me, didn't make it any easier for them to
sleep in their own bed.

--
Nikki

[swhippman]

(Bah. I give up. I'm just going to reply through Google.)


Nikki wrote:
>
> I haven't responded previously because it was very difficult for my
kids to
> move out of the family bed and we ended up doing it much later then
the time
> frame you gave because of it. It was wasn't so smooth so I didn't
have any
> advice

Oh, but that's exactly the kind of story I want to hear! Well, maybe
not exactly 'want to', but you hopefully see what I mean. If
there are things you wish you'd done differently, then I can learn
something, and if it was just an unavoidably difficult situation then
at least I can prepare myself for the possibility of it going badly
when we try it.


All the best,

Sarah
(E-mail address is nannyogg@samael.demon.co.uk. The above address is
defunct.)