Responding to Arguments Against Corporal Punishment

Stephanie · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 358

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message @armory.com...
> Stephanie wrote:
>>
>> "R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
>> @armory.com...
>> > Opinions wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This really cuts to the core of the problem. Few parents are
>> >> inclined
>> >> to wade through no-spank research, much of it questionable,
>> > -----------------------
>> > Only to you who are desperate for it to seem so to you.
>> >
>> >
>> >> What parents really want is, if spanking is
>> >> all that bad for kids, something that is at least as effective and
>> >> easy
>> >> to implement as spanking for those times when nothing else seems to
>> >> work.
>> > -------------------------
>> > But control of others is dishonest and does not work in the longest
>> > run. "Something" that is "as effective"
>>
>> Well I guess it depends on what you want to be effective AT. If you want
>> to
>> be effective at raising healthy, responsible, mentally stable, loving,
>> wonderful grown ups, then being effective is nice. If you want to be
>> effective at getting your kid into submission, then I would say one would
>> have a screwed up goal.
> --------------------------
> Yes.
>
>
>> > is NOT what genuinely loving
>> > intelligent people SHOULD want, because it's WRONG, the entire notion
>> > of controlling others is WRONG,
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> > and EVIL! You will never wind up with
>> > people who do good from good motives that way, people who will do Good
>> > when you're not there or after you're long dead, that will NEVER HAPPEN
>> > AS A RESULT OF YOUR COERCIVE CONTROL STRATEGIES!!
>> >
>> > Instead you have to enlist them in the army of Goodness and Love and
>> > Respect by using YOUR Goodness and Love and Respect, and ASKING their
>> > participation in that way, and giving them reasons why it works when
>> > they ask, because nothing else does that!! And trying to MAKE them
>> > do Good WILL NEVER WORK, they will hate you, and that sort of
>> > effort is in fact the incarnate hatred and dishonoring of them!!
>> >
>> > Evil IS the warped backward mirror image of Good!!
>> >
>> >
>> >> Had no-spanks produced that singular strategy or technique several
>> >> decades ago, the current dog and pony show would no longer be
>> >> necessary.
>> > -----------------
>> > The methods of Goodness are universally known and understood,
>>
>> I don't think this is so. I think that we cling to what we know from our
>> own
>> childhood, and transitioning to a new way of thinking can bend the brain
>> a
>> bit. It is worth the effort, but it is not any more universally known
>> than
>> any other thing I think. I think we have moved, as a society, far enough
>> away from it that it looks funny to us.
> -------------------------
> I mean it in this way: Even the worst psychopath loves themself and
> wishes good things for themself. Everyone knows what Goodness is,
> they just can't get it right regarding others.
>
> So yes, you're right it is hard to get it right, but everyone knows
> Good when they see it done to them!
> Steve
>

Perhaps. Or that disconnect could be a compelling definition of a type of
mental illness.

>
>> > but
>> > the Evil prefer to imagine that Goodness is "unworkable", when in
>> > fact the Truth is really that they simply wish to continue to do Evil!
>> >
>> >
>> >> Much like experienced parents still suggest spanking,
>> > --------------------
>> > Long-failed parents pretend their failure was "all they could do",
>> > instead of accepting the blame for their stupid Evil weakness and
>> > cruel venality.
>> > Steve

Archived from group: misc>kids

Stephanie · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 358

"Doan" wrote in message @skat.usc.edu...
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Stephanie wrote:
>
>>
>> "Doan" wrote in message
>> @skat.usc.edu...
>> > On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Stephanie wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> "Doan" wrote in message
>> >> @skat.usc.edu...
>> >> >
>> >> > You can also buy into the anti-spanking agenda and learn what
>> >> > Swedish
>> >> > parents has learned.
>> >> >
>> >> > "Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so,
>> >> > they
>> >> > rely
>> >> > on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method
>> >> > most
>> >> > commonly used is _verbal_conflict_resolution_, which invites parents
>> >> > as
>> >> > well as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist
>> >> > that
>> >> > discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking
>> >> > firm
>> >> > hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and
>> >> > professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or
>> >> > that
>> >> > yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many
>> >> > point
>> >> > out
>> >> > that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring
>> >> > the
>> >> > problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating
>> >> > than
>> >> > physical punishment."
>> >> >
>> >> > It is better to yell at your kid - just call it "verbal conflict
>> >> > resolution"! Wink

>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> That's why I specifically refer to non-punitive discipline rather than
>> >> highlighting specifically spanking.
>> >>
>> > The problem is how you define "non-punitive".
>>
>>
>> Every time I have ever tried to engage you in dialog, you rant about
>> other
>> posters who are lying. I don't know the studies to which you refer. ANd I
>> doubt very much I am going to see anything other than ranting out of you.
>>
> I don't accuse others of lying withou proof.
> In this case, I asked for
> studies that compared non-cp alternatives to spanking under the same
> statistical analysis. LaVonne & Kane0 said they have provided them
> "numerous times"; all you have to do is to "look in the archives".
> I called their bluff and PUBLICLY called them LIARS because no such
> study existed. I've even posted the proof from anti-spanking researcher
> like Gershoff who have acknowledged such fact:
>
> "Baumrind et al. (2002) cited several studies that have found
> corporal punishment to be less associated with negative outcomes
> than are other discipline techniques. Although this may be true,
> just because other techniques are worse than corporal punishment
> does not make corporal punishment any better. Until positive
> effects are linked with corporal punishment, it should not be
> routinely recommended as a method of controlling children. However,
> it is important to note that their argument does point to the
> need for similar research on all methods of parental discipline, not
> just corporal punishment."
>
> Now, do me a favor, Stephanie. Please search the "archives" to see
> if you can find such a study. If you can, I will PUBLICLY apologize
> to both of them.
>

I don't CARE about such a study. I don't have the foggiest notion why you
responded to me requesting that I find such a study. How can you have a
study that demonstrates positive methods are good at controlling children
when the goal IS NOT TO CONTROL?? How do you feel about cooperating when
someone wants to control you? You do the least amount of whatever to cover
your own ass, then in the privacy of your home, bathroom, bedroom or
whatever, you think the authority figure who attempted to control you is a
jackass. Why would it be any different for children?

> Doan
>
>
>
>