How do you handle Parents that BEAT their kids?

elecconnec · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

John wrote:
> Once in SeaWorld of Florida I was walking and to my distance saw a
> mother going histerical at her little girl. She was screaming at
her,
> spanking her, and jerking her violently. This poor little girl was
> getting beat in front of others, and nobody stopped or said anything.

Very sad. Was the mother hitting her with a Jornada or a Mobilepro?

If not, I'm just curious why this is crossposted to
microsoft.public.handheldpc?

Archived from group: misc>kids

Kane · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 126

eleccon...@aol.com wrote:
> John wrote:
> > Once in SeaWorld of Florida I was walking and to my distance saw a
> > mother going histerical at her little girl. She was screaming at
> her,
> > spanking her, and jerking her violently. This poor little girl was
> > getting beat in front of others, and nobody stopped or said
anything.
>
> Very sad. Was the mother hitting her with a Jornada or a Mobilepro?
>
> If not, I'm just curious why this is crossposted to
> microsoft.public.handheldpc?

The original poster that started the new subject thread included that
addy.

Why?

Well, who's to say.

Why not do a google [reply to author] directly and ask?

I notice most everyone else, (except for toto...who, being a polite and
net aware poster, must have simply not noticed) until you, stripped
that addy, most politely though. Now, of course, it's back in the mix.
And I'll leave it this once so you'll see my suggestion.

Thanks for pointing out the breach of posting protocol.

Hope this helps.

Kane

R. Steve Walz · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1906

TM wrote:
>
> People have a right to privacy, they have a right to raise their children as
> they see fit.
---------------------------
Nope, they don't, they are ONLY allowed to raise their children
within the bounds of the behaviors sanctioned under law!
Steve

R. Steve Walz · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1906

toto wrote:
>
> On 27 Feb 2005 10:59:05 -0800, "Kane"
> wrote:
>
> >This lady was out of control, obviously. Do you really think a gentle
> >helpful intervention would have had any real effect out of public
> >sight?
> >
> >I'd hope so, but the unchanging rates of child abuse suggest otherwise,
> >statistically.
>
> Punishing her won't work either.
>
> Foster care is not a cureall since the foster care system often brings
> problems of its own.
[]
> Dorothy
------------------------------------
I'd prefer we mandate cameras in suspicious households and whenever
parents are discovered abusibg children that several large men show
up at their front and back doors and break as many of their teeth or
bones as needed to discourage that behavior. They'll stop. After
awhile they will run away from their child in abject terror whenever
they become "angry"! Very amusing.
Steve

charles381 · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 16

Sometimes children push the adults to their limits....both were probably
tired.
The adult should have given a swift swat to the seat of the child, and
taken her home to be given a spanking at home in
private. Stronger swats, with hand to redden the area of the buttocks
and corner standing for an hour can cure the most unruly of
childeren.....nobody has to "beat" the child, simply make sure that the
unruly behavior is not going to be taken in stide.....If they act up,
this is what is going tgo happen when they get home.....if it takes afew
times to sink in, so be it....

Bye....

text="white">

kane_pohaku · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 333

charles381@webtv.net wrote:
> Sometimes children push the adults to their limits....both were
probably
> tired.

That sounds like the child has the power.

Well, the child cannot spank the parent. Send the parent to the room.
Sit them in time out. The child is close to powerless.

A parent can, if they so choose, even kill a child. It is very
difficult for child to kill a parent.

> The adult should have given a swift swat to the seat of the child,
and
> taken her home to be given a spanking at home in
> private.

Actually, give the child was tired, as you speculate, who really
deserved a swift swat to the seat of their pants?

The parent has ALL the choices. A child has but very few. They don't
have any idea how to get their needs met by acceptable means....that's
why we call them "children" and assist them in learning how to get
their needs met.

If the mother was tired and out of sorts what example did she set to
teach the child by getting her own needs met? Hit?

> Stronger swats, with hand to redden the area of the buttocks
> and corner standing for an hour can cure the most unruly of
> childeren.....

Nonsense. It simply teaches them to hate. It even teaches them, if the
parent insists, on learning how to suppress their hatred and redirect
it.

We have enough nutcases in the world, destroying it, themselves, and
each other...oh, and US and our children, not raised like brutes by
brutes.

> nobody has to "beat" the child,

"Redden the are of the buttocks" Not "'beat'?"

> simply make sure that the
> unruly behavior is not going to be taken in stide.....If they act up,
> this is what is going tgo happen when they get home.....if it takes
afew
> times to sink in, so be it....

They'll get their revenge eventually. Destroy themselves, if you are
lucky, you if you are not so lucky.

> Bye....

Bye, babbler and abuse apologist.

Kane

Doan · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1571

On 5 Mar 2005 kane_pohaku@yahoo.com wrote:

> Bye, babbler and abuse apologist.
>
> Kane
>
Hi Charles, meet Kane0 - the "never-spanked" kid! Wink

Doan

deantran · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

John wrote:
> Once in SeaWorld of Florida I was walking and to my distance saw a
> mother going histerical at her little girl. She was screaming at
her,
> spanking her, and jerking her violently. This poor little girl was
> getting beat in front of others, and nobody stopped or said anything.

> But after observing this horrible scene for a few minutes and seeing
> nobody stop I took action. So I walked within a few feet of the
mother
> and stood there staring. The mother saw me and jerked her child away
I
> guess to be beat somewhere else. So the child was taken near a
> bathroom, and spanked, and jerked around a bit. I was not sure what
the
> child did wrong, but was shocked that nobody ever stopped or said
> anything to this mean mother.
>
> Did I handled the situation coreectly? I thought that I should have
> verbally confronted the mother instead of nonverbally.
>
>
>
> John

Call 911 when she took the child to beat her somewhere else. This will
teach the mother a lesson. Beating a child causes psychological
damages.

kane_pohaku · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 333

Mister wrote:
> "toto" wrote in message
> @4ax.com...
>
> >
> > And abused children will be *more* at risk if you confront an
abuser
> > in public and try to punish her.
> >
> > You might want to ask people on alt.abuse.recovery how they handle
> > such situations in order to avoid having the child punished even
more
> > once she gets home, Ivan.
> >
>
> Having been smacked on the back of the legs a couple of times
> when I was a kid some onlooker though they would decide to intervene
> and tell my Dad off.
>
> He was *fuming*.
> When we got back home I was properly thrashed.
> I know people want to help but sometimes for the kid involved, it
just
> isn't the right option.

Unless one is willing to allow without personal intervention the abuse
of a child then that leaves only one really moral choice.

I'll call it The Gowtch Imperative, since he's suggested it.

And I second his suggestion.

We seem to have come to that. People will abuse their children if you
DON'T intervene, and may do so even more energitically if you do, so
the police are the only logical, humane, and honorable response.

I am sorry for what happened to you as a child. No child deserves such
cruelty.

Kane

toto · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 2581

On 6 Mar 2005 13:11:20 -0800, kane_pohaku@yahoo.com wrote:

>We seem to have come to that. People will abuse their children if you
>DON'T intervene, and may do so even more energitically if you do, so
>the police are the only logical, humane, and honorable response.

Not at all. It's the manner in which intervention occurs that often
makes a difference. If we intend to be a humane and civilized
society, we need to find alternatives that don't harm children more
than they help.

I believe in personal intervention. I don't know why we believe that
we must punish the parent when we know punishment doesn't work
to reform people. I also contend that we need to find ways to help
*both* the parents and the children. In some cases, that does mean
that the child must be removed at least temporarily, but in most cases
I think we can work better on this in ways that don't require removal
of the child from the parent they love and have bonded with despite
any abuse that is happening.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

Mister · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

"toto" wrote in message@4ax.com...

>
> And abused children will be *more* at risk if you confront an abuser
> in public and try to punish her.
>
> You might want to ask people on alt.abuse.recovery how they handle
> such situations in order to avoid having the child punished even more
> once she gets home, Ivan.
>

Having been smacked on the back of the legs a couple of times
when I was a kid some onlooker though they would decide to intervene
and tell my Dad off.

He was *fuming*.
When we got back home I was properly thrashed.
I know people want to help but sometimes for the kid involved, it just
isn't the right option.

kane_pohaku · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 333

toto wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2005 13:11:20 -0800, kane_pohaku@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >We seem to have come to that. People will abuse their children if
you
> >DON'T intervene, and may do so even more energitically if you do, so
> >the police are the only logical, humane, and honorable response.
>
> Not at all. It's the manner in which intervention occurs that often
> makes a difference. If we intend to be a humane and civilized
> society, we need to find alternatives that don't harm children more
> than they help.

Toto, I was speaking to the scenario proffered by the poster. When you
snip such as you did, the point is lost. Naughty, naughty.

> I believe in personal intervention. I don't know why we believe
that
> we must punish the parent when we know punishment doesn't work
> to reform people.

Well, you can call it "punishment" or you can call it "protecting the
child and subsequently, society from what the child so often becomes."

I mean, after all, if you look, and if you think about it, and you have
a sense of history, the world isn't in such fantastic shape it can't
improve.

And it has, toto, over the centuries, and by more and constraints on
caregivers of children. Fewer and fewer atrocities allowed as
culturally acceptable.

And if you check out countries where things are much worse, guess what?
Mistreated children, as a matter of course, culturally.

> I also contend that we need to find ways to help
> *both* the parents and the children.

Okay. Give us some samples that haven't been tried already, and were
discarded as hopelessly ineffective, or are still in place and part of
the reason for children being somewhat better off than they were in say
1840.

> In some cases, that does mean
> that the child must be removed at least temporarily, but in most
cases
> I think we can work better on this in ways that don't require removal
> of the child from the parent they love and have bonded with despite
> any abuse that is happening.

Toto, if you hadn't snipped my post so that you could respond to only
part of it to question my thinking and criticize it you would see I
took that into account.

Take this line from my post you snipped. I opened with it, in fact:

"Unless one is willing to allow without personal intervention the abuse
of a child then that leaves only one really moral choice. "

Normally one would conclude that I was in fact in favor of OTHER
methods than calling the police. I pointed out that only if people
prove unwilling to intervene personally, there this is only one humane
alternative.

You are pretending I didn't say "intervene."

You are in fact, pretending, or making it appear as though I am against
interventions other than police, and I plainly pointed out THE LACK OF
PERSONAL INTERVENTION, left only the law as an humane, honorable, more
choice.

Why did you do that?

Do you dislike me and what I say, and so are willing to play, as some
do here, at twisting my words, snipping in ways that change my meaning
by leaving out critical information that clarifies my claims and
positions?

In other words, you just shot someone that AGREES WITH YOU, all for
what?

> --
> Dorothy

Please don't do that. You know who and what it makes you look like
here.

> There is no sound, no cry in all the world
> that can be heard unless someone listens ..

Well, I made a claim, and suggestion, and you stopped at the point you
had formulated a response to PART OF MY POST, and not only ignored the
rest and it's meaning, but made it appear in your reply that I had NOT
said what I said.

Are you following me?

> The Outer Limits

I'd prefer, over fantasy...which is what you quote...reality, which is
what I said.

Thanks for your attention to this matter.

And for those that think I might be creatively selecting portions of
post, let me provide you with my actual post, which includes the
attributed remarks to which I responded.

See below my sig.

Kane

"kane_poh...@yahoo.com Mar 6, 1:11 pm show options
Newsgroups: misc.kids, alt.parenting.spanking, alt.parenting.solutions,
alt.bible
From: kane_poh...@yahoo.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 6 Mar 2005 13:11:20 -0800
Local: Sun, Mar 6 2005 1:11 pm
Subject: Re: How do you handle Parents that BEAT their kids?
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original | Remove | Report Abuse

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mister wrote:
> "toto" wrote in message
> @4ax.com...

> > And abused children will be *more* at risk if you confront an
abuser
> > in public and try to punish her.

> > You might want to ask people on alt.abuse.recovery how they handle
> > such situations in order to avoid having the child punished even
more
> > once she gets home, Ivan.

> Having been smacked on the back of the legs a couple of times
> when I was a kid some onlooker though they would decide to intervene
> and tell my Dad off.

> He was *fuming*.
> When we got back home I was properly thrashed.
> I know people want to help but sometimes for the kid involved, it
just
> isn't the right option.

Unless one is willing to allow without personal intervention the abuse
of a child then that leaves only one really moral choice.

I'll call it The Gowtch Imperative, since he's suggested it.

And I second his suggestion.

We seem to have come to that. People will abuse their children if you
DON'T intervene, and may do so even more energitically if you do, so
the police are the only logical, humane, and honorable response.

I am sorry for what happened to you as a child. No child deserves such
cruelty.

Kane
"

Greegor · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 664

For those of you who don't already know it, I want to announce
that Kane has finally had a breakdown. He stated in
another newsgroup that I had publicly threatened him
and that I was publicly marking people for murder.

Needless to say, I never did either, so I don't
expect Kane to post any citations to back up
his recent DELUSIONS.

Dean:
Almost everything causes psychological damage.

Just ask the APA!
They're not biased, really! (sic)
Just because their entire INDUSTRY depends on it
doesn't mean they are biased!

It is well known by caseworkers that child removal
causes psychological damage, and at a level
that makes spanking seem like a picnic.

But you will never see caseworkers express concern
about that harm done by child removal. Just the opposite.

They know where their bread is buttered!

Whitewashing spanking as "beating" may backfire!

That kind of garbage has resulted in court decisions
expanding parents rights (in about 1/4 of the country) to
spank in such a way that red marks lasted for DAYS!

Pastor Dave · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 57

On 7 Mar 2005 13:56:11 -0800, after pondering deep
thoughts, "Greegor" spake thusly:

>For those of you who don't already know it, I want to announce
>that Kane has finally had a breakdown. He stated in
>another newsgroup that I had publicly threatened him
>and that I was publicly marking people for murder.
>
>Needless to say, I never did either, so I don't
>expect Kane to post any citations to back up
>his recent DELUSIONS.

Well, if you did, I don't think that you would have
done it in public news groups. Smile

>Dean:
>Almost everything causes psychological damage.
>
>Just ask the APA!

I thought they broke up when Faruk left? Smile

--

Pastor Dave Raymond

"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\

"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html

Wes Groleau · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 11

Doan wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Mar 2005, R. Steve Walz wrote:
[snip instead of shovel]

The FAQ says killfiles serve only to perpetuate ignorance.
I say watching these guys exchange feces is anything but
perpetuating knowledge!

--
Wes Groleau

After the christening of his baby brother in church, Jason sobbed
all the way home in the back seat of the car. His father asked him
three times what was wrong. Finally, the boy replied, "That preacher
said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home, and I wanted to
stay with you guys."