Bedwetting and Hygene: my daughter's recent problem

Narelle · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

Johnny K wrote:
> Time for an updfate I suppose. Sorry I wasn't on yesterday, been a bit
> busy.
>
> I've continued the "bedtime rituals" with both my daughters, but both have
> been wet for the last 2 nights. I know at doesn't really matter, but at
> least their pullups are less wet than they have been.
>
> Both of my daughters changed and showered before breakfast yesterday and
> today. I only had to nag a little.
>
> I suppose the problem's pretty much solved now. I still welcome any and all
> advice anyone has. If there are any more problems, or anymore dry nights,
> I'll let everyone know. Thanks.
>
>

Hi,
I have been reading this thread with interest, having just come through
a similar problem. My DS is 10, and has never grown out of nighttime
bedwetting. Sometimes he was still sitting in his wet pullup an hour
after he had woken up. I tried many of the ways that have been
mentioned, and I totally understand how frustrating it can be.
There can be a number of reasons for bedwetting; genetics, infection,
small bladder, deep sleep, hormonal, or a combination of these. About
4 months ago we went to the local health care clinic to go on their
program, using the alarm. I had been really resistant to this, as I saw
it as a bit like a "Pavlov's dog" method of training. However, I've got
to say that I am now a convert (although it doesn't work in all cases).
Anyway, here are the steps that the clinic took us through:
Get a test to discount any UTI.
Make sure there is no constipation; this will cause pressure on the bladder
Measure the amount of wee. An older child should be able to hold approx
360ml. If it is significantly less, then a small bladder may be the
problem, and this can be fixed fairly simply.
Cut out drinks containing caffine, as this is a bladder irritant.
Drink at least 1.2L per day (pref water). Don't withhold drinks at
night if thirsty; a normal bladder should be able to cope (this was a
change in thinking for me, and I struggled!). If you want to use
rewards, reward for good drinking, rather than dry nights.
Get your dd to "hold" on a bit longer when she needs to go. This was a
biggie for me also; I am a mum that makes the kids go to the loo before
leaving the house, whether they need to or not, when we are going
shopping or whatever. If they need to go when we are out, I would
immediately find a loo. I again had to change my thinking and habit
regarding this. Just an half an hour longer, and the bladder will
stretch a bit more.
We did all of the above for about 3 weeks before getting the alarm. The
alarm we used was like a rubber mat (approx size of a doormat) that is
put under a sheet. My ds's therapist was really good with him, talking
thru each step, making sure it was him that wanted to be dry at night,
and not just to please me.
As explained to us, the alarm works because it is so noisy and yuk. My
ds is a very deep sleeper, plus had a small bladder, so wasn't waking up
when he needed to go (YMMV). When the alarm went off, he had to get up,
turn it off himself and go to the bathroom. The alarm is triggered by
the wet; brain says "I don't like this interruption", and after a while
gets that it is related to wee'ing (that's a very simplified version).
Anyway, it worked for us, and might be worth looking into, or at least
trying the first few steps.
N

Archived from group: misc>kids

Just Mel · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 4

your children's doctor can prescribe a nose spray that really works to stop
nighttime wetting. it worked for my kids (ok, it was a long time ago)
"Johnny K" wrote in message @fidnet.com...
>
> "bizby40" wrote in message
> @adelphia.com...
>>
>> I know I'm coming into this conversation late, but I've been thinking
>> about it. First, it's clear that you have two problems, bedwetting
>> and discipline.
>>
>> My daughter was 6 (almost 7) when she stopped wearing pull-ups. At
>> the time, she was soaking them every night. I never considered taking
>> her out of them because of that. But DH would try every few months.
>> He always offered little incentives. She'd be dry for a few nights,
>> and then she'd go back to wetting. Finally he offered her a video if
>> she could stay dry for two weeks. That did the trick and she's been
>> dry ever since.
>
> What works for one child may not work for another. In any case, I don't
> think bribing my daughter with an incentive to stop doing something she
> cannot control would be very productive. It would only discourage her
> when,
> despite her best efforts, she failed. I'm glad it worked for you though
> Smile

>
>> My sister's son was much older. We thought his nighttime wetting was
>> tied to his cerebral palsy, but maybe not. At any rate, the doctor
>> prescribed a pill that helped him. I don't know what it was called,
>> but she would give it daily. If he took the pill, he didn't wet. If
>> he didn't take it, he did. I never looked into it for my daughter,
>> but might have if she'd gotten much older before she stopped.
>
> I don't believe in using drugs unless absolutely necessary. Pullups and
> lots of laundry are both better alternatives in my opinion.
>>
>> Now for the discipline problem. You need to stop thinking about
>> things like "fair" and "hypocritical." You have decided that it's not
>> acceptable for them to come downstairs in wet pull-ups (and I agree,
>> BTW), and you need to stick to that. If she comes down in wet
>> pull-ups, you tell her quietly but firmly to go change. If she says
>> no, you repeat, just as quietly. She doesn't get to eat, turn on the
>> TV, turn on the computer, or do anything at all until she changes.
>> She might whine, complain, or mouth off, but you hold firm, and stay
>> quiet. Do not argue with her, just prevent her from doing anything
>> until she's changed.
>>
>> It might take a few days of this before she believes that you are
>> serious and just changes before she comes down. But if you give it up
>> as too difficult, then you make it more difficult for yourself the
>> next time you decide to draw the line on something.
>
> I've begun to get a bit tougher. It's paying off a bit. My elder
> daughter
> had her first dry night all summer just this morning, and we're hoping for
> another one tomorrow morning. I'm going to stick firm with no breakfast
> in
> wet pullups and goodnites, but if they're dry, you can eat in them. If it
> seems detrimental, I'll give up on it, but I think it'll go fine. Thanks
> Smile

>
>

Johnny K · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 21

"Just Mel" wrote in message$ok5.7598@dukeread01...
> your children's doctor can prescribe a nose spray that really works to
stop
> nighttime wetting. it worked for my kids (ok, it was a long time ago)

That would fall under the heading of Drugs. Sorry, but this simply isn't an
option.

Johnny K · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 21

> Hi,
> I have been reading this thread with interest, having just come through
> a similar problem. My DS is 10, and has never grown out of nighttime
> bedwetting. Sometimes he was still sitting in his wet pullup an hour
> after he had woken up. I tried many of the ways that have been
> mentioned, and I totally understand how frustrating it can be.

He still does this? Are you sure he's not peeing in it after waking up?

> There can be a number of reasons for bedwetting; genetics, infection,
> small bladder, deep sleep, hormonal, or a combination of these.

In the cases of my daughters, it's genetics.

> About
> 4 months ago we went to the local health care clinic to go on their
> program, using the alarm. I had been really resistant to this, as I saw
> it as a bit like a "Pavlov's dog" method of training. However, I've got
> to say that I am now a convert (although it doesn't work in all cases).
> Anyway, here are the steps that the clinic took us through:
> Get a test to discount any UTI.

Done

> Make sure there is no constipation; this will cause pressure on the
bladder

Done

> Measure the amount of wee. An older child should be able to hold approx
> 360ml. If it is significantly less, then a small bladder may be the
> problem, and this can be fixed fairly simply.

I've never actually measured, but both of my girls can go alot!

> Cut out drinks containing caffine, as this is a bladder irritant.
> Drink at least 1.2L per day (pref water). Don't withhold drinks at
> night if thirsty; a normal bladder should be able to cope (this was a
> change in thinking for me, and I struggled!).

I don't withhold drinks, but I limit them. If my kids are thirsty, then I
let them drink of course, but I'm not going to allow them a huge glass of
milk half an hour before bed. Well, actually, until a few days ago, I
didn't bother with this anymore.

> If you want to use
> rewards, reward for good drinking, rather than dry nights.

I don't want to use rewards. Well, i suppose getting to eat in your night
things is a reward...

> Get your dd to "hold" on a bit longer when she needs to go. This was a
> biggie for me also; I am a mum that makes the kids go to the loo before
> leaving the house, whether they need to or not, when we are going
> shopping or whatever. If they need to go when we are out, I would
> immediately find a loo. I again had to change my thinking and habit
> regarding this. Just an half an hour longer, and the bladder will
> stretch a bit more.

I don't have to worry about this. My kids are world class at holding it Razz

My elder daughter told me she doesn't use the toilets at school.

> We did all of the above for about 3 weeks before getting the alarm. The
> alarm we used was like a rubber mat (approx size of a doormat) that is
> put under a sheet.

Let me inturrupt here. If your son sleeps in pullups, how does the wetness
get to the alarm?

> My ds's therapist was really good with him, talking
> thru each step, making sure it was him that wanted to be dry at night,
> and not just to please me.
> As explained to us, the alarm works because it is so noisy and yuk. My
> ds is a very deep sleeper, plus had a small bladder, so wasn't waking up
> when he needed to go (YMMV). When the alarm went off, he had to get up,
> turn it off himself and go to the bathroom. The alarm is triggered by
> the wet; brain says "I don't like this interruption", and after a while
> gets that it is related to wee'ing (that's a very simplified version).
> Anyway, it worked for us, and might be worth looking into, or at least
> trying the first few steps.
> N

I'm not a fan of the alarm concept. Sleeping through the night is more
important than dry sheets, which can be accomplished with a lot less
heartache with goodnites than an alarm. I figure they'll grow out of it
soon enough, and the protection isn't very expensive. They like their
sleep, and I like them well rested.

Thanks though. I really do appriciate the advice.

Tori M · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 266

The word Hygiene is used many times

Tori
> I'm a little confused. When you came here, were you looking for help with
> the wetting problem? Or only with the hygiene problem?
>
> Bizby
>

bizby40 · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1465

"Johnny K" wrote in message @fidnet.com...
> I'm not a fan of the alarm concept. Sleeping through the night is
> more
> important than dry sheets, which can be accomplished with a lot less
> heartache with goodnites than an alarm. I figure they'll grow out
> of it
> soon enough, and the protection isn't very expensive. They like
> their
> sleep, and I like them well rested.

I'm a little confused. When you came here, were you looking for help
with the wetting problem? Or only with the hygiene problem?

Bizby

bizby40 · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1465

"Tori M" wrote in message @bright.net...
> The word Hygiene is used many times

Yes, but the subject line is "Bedwetting *and* Hygene[sic]" and he's
never actually said he doesn't want advice about it, yet he shoots
down every idea he's offered.

Bizby

> Tori
>> I'm a little confused. When you came here, were you looking for
>> help with the wetting problem? Or only with the hygiene problem?
>>
>> Bizby

grammaticism/grammatichas · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

Well, then why not just change the pullup and wash his hands before
they have breakfast?
Or have her change herself and wash her hands before sitting at the
table?
You know, "No breakfast until you change into something dry, young
lady."

toypup wrote:
> "bizby40" wrote in message
> @adelphia.com...
> >
> > "Tori M" wrote in message
> > @bright.net...
> >> The word Hygiene is used many times
> >
> > Yes, but the subject line is "Bedwetting *and* Hygene[sic]" and he's never
> > actually said he doesn't want advice about it, yet he shoots down every
> > idea he's offered.
>
> It's pretty clear to me that his complaint is that his DD sits at breakfast
> with a wet Pullup. That was his complaint, not the bedwetting.

toypup · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1307

"bizby40" wrote in message @adelphia.com...
>
> "Tori M" wrote in message
> @bright.net...
>> The word Hygiene is used many times
>
> Yes, but the subject line is "Bedwetting *and* Hygene[sic]" and he's never
> actually said he doesn't want advice about it, yet he shoots down every
> idea he's offered.

It's pretty clear to me that his complaint is that his DD sits at breakfast
with a wet Pullup. That was his complaint, not the bedwetting.

PattyMomVA · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 547

"Johnny K" wrote:
> >> your children's doctor can prescribe a nose spray that really works to
> stop
>> nighttime wetting. it worked for my kids (ok, it was a long time ago)
>
> That would fall under the heading of Drugs. Sorry, but this simply isn't
> an
> option.

Actually, the nose spray and the pill that are used these days are a
naturally-occurring hormone that has absolutely no side effects. My DD's
pediatric urologist assured me of this. Perhaps you would feel more
comfortable with the idea if you looked into it a bit more.

-Patty, mom of 1+2

PattyMomVA · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 547

"dragonlady" wrote and I snipped:
> Remember, this isn't about being able to wake up when your bladder is
> full -- at least, not entirely. It is about the hormone that is
> produced when you are older that stops the kidneys from producing so
> much urine while you are alseep that you HAVE to get up in the middle of
> the night to pee. In some kids, that hormone is there in enough
> quantity so they can stay dry through the night by the time they are two
> or three -- in others, like my son, not until they are 14. It isn't a
> medical concern, and where there is a family history of it, it was my
> experience that most doctors won't want to run extensive tests. In the
> OP's case, there IS a family history, so it makes way more sense to just
> be patient until the child's body starts producing that hormone in
> sufficient quantities.

This is exactly what's happening for many kids, when other problems are
ruled out. And, an alternative to being patient is to give the child this
hormone in the form of a pill or nose spray.

-Patty, mom of 1+2

toypup · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1307

"grammaticism/grammatichasm" wrote in message @i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Well, then why not just change the pullup and wash his hands before
> they have breakfast?
> Or have her change herself and wash her hands before sitting at the
> table?
> You know, "No breakfast until you change into something dry, young
> lady."

Maybe you should go back and read the thread. That's all been discussed.

Tai · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

Johnny K wrote:

[...]

>
> That evening, I did the same thing. And, astoundadly, my elder
> daughter woke up dry! Perhaps these nightime rituals could end her
> bedwetting completely! I have hope, though she is on occasion dry
> anyway. As there was nothing to clean up, I went ahead and let her
> eat in her dry goodnites and pyjamas. I let my younger daughter eat
> in her wet things. I was too happy to be strict Razz

However, from
> now on, I'm going to be strict about it. You can eat in your jamies
> if your "underwear" is dry. Otherwise, you have to change first.
> Hopefully, this will work out, and not cause a backlash. And
> hopefully, my elder daughter will be dry from now on.

My daughter wasn't consistently dry over night until she was past the age of
seven. We didn't restrict her fluids at night because if a child (or anyone)
is thirsty it means they are already dehydrated but we did insist on her
going to the toilet before bed. Her morning routine was to remove her
pullups immediately and put on her underwear (rinsing off first if she was
wet) before breakfast. Every few months we'd try for a week or two of no
pullups to see how close she was to being dry and when she got to the point
of wetting once a week we just put up with any extra laundry that happened.

Her brothers were dry at night by about 4 and 5, respectively, and I took
their pullups off them as soon as they woke, wet or dry, because if I got
there in time I could save a dry one for reuse the next night. They both
had the tendency to wake up, stretch comfortably and let go their bladders,
though, which is something you have to watch with little kids. It can be
hard to tell just when that inconvenient urination occurred!

Tai

bizby40 · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1465

"toypup" wrote in message $%j7.1377@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "bizby40" wrote in message
> @adelphia.com...
>>
>> "Tori M" wrote in message
>> @bright.net...
>>> The word Hygiene is used many times
>>
>> Yes, but the subject line is "Bedwetting *and* Hygene[sic]" and
>> he's never actually said he doesn't want advice about it, yet he
>> shoots down every idea he's offered.
>
> It's pretty clear to me that his complaint is that his DD sits at
> breakfast with a wet Pullup. That was his complaint, not the
> bedwetting.

Well, then, perhaps if he said that straight out, he'd get less advice
about the bedwetting. Given the amount he's getting, I can see that I
wasn't the only one confused. And actually, as he's talked about
changing the bedtime routine and the hopes that it would help with the
wetting, I got the definite impression that he was open to advice
about it.

Bizby

Rosalie B. · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1547

"bizby40" wrote:
>
>"toypup" wrote in message
>$%j7.1377@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> "bizby40" wrote in message
>> @adelphia.com...
>>>
>>> "Tori M" wrote in message
>>> @bright.net...
>>>> The word Hygiene is used many times
>>>
>>> Yes, but the subject line is "Bedwetting *and* Hygene[sic]" and
>>> he's never actually said he doesn't want advice about it, yet he
>>> shoots down every idea he's offered.
>>
>> It's pretty clear to me that his complaint is that his DD sits at
>> breakfast with a wet Pullup. That was his complaint, not the
>> bedwetting.
>
>Well, then, perhaps if he said that straight out, he'd get less advice
>about the bedwetting. Given the amount he's getting, I can see that I
>wasn't the only one confused. And actually, as he's talked about
>changing the bedtime routine and the hopes that it would help with the
>wetting, I got the definite impression that he was open to advice
>about it.
>
I thought it was both. He doesn't want her in wet pullups at
breakfast (and this seems to be a battle of wills, with him not
willing to make her get dressed because he's not dressed), and if she
wasn't wetting the bed anymore then there wouldn't be wet pullups so
the problem would be OBE.

Plus the title has bed wetting in it. But when I read the whole
thing, I got the impression that it was more the wet pullups than it
was the bed wetting.