My wife nurses our 21month old son (overnight) - he has cavi

rkbose · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 841

Joel M. Eichen wrote:
> This is true, give me a politically correct, sloppy,
> unskilled dentist anytime who can sweet-talk me
> into what I want to hear ........
>
>
> When his work goes bad, there are lots
> more willing to replace it!
>
>
> Joel M. Eichen DDS

OTOH, some of us luck out with caring, friendly, competent dentists who
aren't rude.

For a pediatric dentist, I'd say personality was extremely important.

I'd have a problem assuming rudeness and competence are positively
correlated in other fields, why should it be so for dentistry?

Rupa

Archived from group: misc>kids

Cathy Weeks · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 520

Joel M. Eichen wrote:
> This is true, give me a politically correct, sloppy,
> unskilled dentist anytime who can sweet-talk me
> into what I want to hear ........
>
>
> When his work goes bad, there are lots
> more willing to replace it!

This has nothing to do with being politically correct. It *is*
possible to find a dentist who is both skilled, AND has good beside
manner.

When I was in graduate school, I had a classmate (a teacher and mother
of two) who told me that she didn't care how nice or how good a
doctor's bedside manner is... she just wants him/her to be skilled
enough to make her better.

I disagreed so much. When my father had cancer, his first oncodoc was a
real jerk. My father wanted to be as possitive as possible, and asked
that he not be told his "chances" of survival, because he knew it would
just get him down. He had a very dangerous form of cancer (esophogeal)
where only about 5% make it 5 years. His oncologist told him anyway,
despite his expressly stated wishes to the contrary. It was one thing
after another like that.

Eventually, when dad was in the hospital, at his very sickest (his
white blood cell count had bottomed out after the chemo and radiation,
and he was sick as hell) he fired that oncologist. He had been working
with a psychologist doing hypnosis and guided imagery, and he asked him
who the most "mental" friendly doctor in that practice was. After
firing the original oncodoc, he asked for the new one, and hired him on
the spot, and liked him very much. Dad credits this second doctor, and
his surgeon with his survival to a cure. It's been 9 years, and no
evidence of recurrance.

So, I believe very strongly that a patient must have a level of trust
with his or her healthcare practicioner - and that included feeling
confident of the information they give you, and knowing they aren't
going to be judgemental and condemning of healthful and normal
parenting practices.

The issue with bedside manner got to be such a big one, that medical
schools are now teaching it specifically. I would assume that Dental
Schools would do the same.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

Cathy Weeks · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 520

Joel M. Eichen wrote:
> This was not the choice we were presented. The discussion was whether
> breast-feeding could cause cavities. Several dentists reported
studies that
> suggest that it can. Then the "hearers of bad news" went on the
attack."

But you *were* presented with that choice. The OP talked specifically
about some of the rudeness of the first dentist, and wondered if he
should seek a second opinion.

As for the studies, several of us have pointed to information on
medline and other sources that shows that the studies that were
presented had significant flaws. But rather than wondering if perhaps
the AAPD recommendations might be wrong, or perhaps wondering if
long-held believes were wrong, some dentists on this thread attacked
our own studies.

So, left with that, how are we supposed to proceed? Just say, "uh, OK,
you must be right? Your studies *must* be superior?"

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

Joel M. Eichen · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 73

This was not the choice we were presented. The discussion was whether
breast-feeding could cause cavities. Several dentists reported studies that
suggest that it can. Then the "hearers of bad news" went on the attack."

That's not to say that the dentists are nut friendly, competent, and loaded
with charm. I didn't hear "rude" from the dentists .......

Joel

wrote in message@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Joel M. Eichen wrote:
> > This is true, give me a politically correct, sloppy,
> > unskilled dentist anytime who can sweet-talk me
> > into what I want to hear ........
> >
> >
> > When his work goes bad, there are lots
> > more willing to replace it!
> >
> >
> > Joel M. Eichen DDS
>
> OTOH, some of us luck out with caring, friendly, competent dentists who
> aren't rude.
>
> For a pediatric dentist, I'd say personality was extremely important.
>
> I'd have a problem assuming rudeness and competence are positively
> correlated in other fields, why should it be so for dentistry?
>
> Rupa
>

Joel M. Eichen · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 73

I agree. A good beside manner is important.
Besides the beside manner, intellectual honesty
is also important.

I had a patient who refused antibiotics and refused
root canal therapy believing that the abscess
would go away if only enough eccinacea were applied.

Needless to say, the tooth is now in the trash.

But the patient is very happy in that her primary care
PHYSICIAN does not roll his eyes anymore when she
mentions eccinacea.

Joel

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Joel M. Eichen wrote:
> > This is true, give me a politically correct, sloppy,
> > unskilled dentist anytime who can sweet-talk me
> > into what I want to hear ........
> >
> >
> > When his work goes bad, there are lots
> > more willing to replace it!
>
> This has nothing to do with being politically correct. It *is*
> possible to find a dentist who is both skilled, AND has good beside
> manner.
>
> When I was in graduate school, I had a classmate (a teacher and mother
> of two) who told me that she didn't care how nice or how good a
> doctor's bedside manner is... she just wants him/her to be skilled
> enough to make her better.
>
> I disagreed so much. When my father had cancer, his first oncodoc was a
> real jerk. My father wanted to be as possitive as possible, and asked
> that he not be told his "chances" of survival, because he knew it would
> just get him down. He had a very dangerous form of cancer (esophogeal)
> where only about 5% make it 5 years. His oncologist told him anyway,
> despite his expressly stated wishes to the contrary. It was one thing
> after another like that.
>
> Eventually, when dad was in the hospital, at his very sickest (his
> white blood cell count had bottomed out after the chemo and radiation,
> and he was sick as hell) he fired that oncologist. He had been working
> with a psychologist doing hypnosis and guided imagery, and he asked him
> who the most "mental" friendly doctor in that practice was. After
> firing the original oncodoc, he asked for the new one, and hired him on
> the spot, and liked him very much. Dad credits this second doctor, and
> his surgeon with his survival to a cure. It's been 9 years, and no
> evidence of recurrance.
>
> So, I believe very strongly that a patient must have a level of trust
> with his or her healthcare practicioner - and that included feeling
> confident of the information they give you, and knowing they aren't
> going to be judgemental and condemning of healthful and normal
> parenting practices.
>
> The issue with bedside manner got to be such a big one, that medical
> schools are now teaching it specifically. I would assume that Dental
> Schools would do the same.
>
> Cathy Weeks
> Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01
>

Joel M. Eichen · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 73

INTERNET:

Where we go for information, and some ideas about other therapies.
This is not patient care and no beside manner is indicated.

Some of the information is right and some is wrong, but you get
to hear all of it.

Why do we have such a "feelgood society?"

Joel

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Joel M. Eichen wrote:
> > This is true, give me a politically correct, sloppy,
> > unskilled dentist anytime who can sweet-talk me
> > into what I want to hear ........
> >
> >
> > When his work goes bad, there are lots
> > more willing to replace it!
>
> This has nothing to do with being politically correct. It *is*
> possible to find a dentist who is both skilled, AND has good beside
> manner.
>
> When I was in graduate school, I had a classmate (a teacher and mother
> of two) who told me that she didn't care how nice or how good a
> doctor's bedside manner is... she just wants him/her to be skilled
> enough to make her better.
>
> I disagreed so much. When my father had cancer, his first oncodoc was a
> real jerk. My father wanted to be as possitive as possible, and asked
> that he not be told his "chances" of survival, because he knew it would
> just get him down. He had a very dangerous form of cancer (esophogeal)
> where only about 5% make it 5 years. His oncologist told him anyway,
> despite his expressly stated wishes to the contrary. It was one thing
> after another like that.
>
> Eventually, when dad was in the hospital, at his very sickest (his
> white blood cell count had bottomed out after the chemo and radiation,
> and he was sick as hell) he fired that oncologist. He had been working
> with a psychologist doing hypnosis and guided imagery, and he asked him
> who the most "mental" friendly doctor in that practice was. After
> firing the original oncodoc, he asked for the new one, and hired him on
> the spot, and liked him very much. Dad credits this second doctor, and
> his surgeon with his survival to a cure. It's been 9 years, and no
> evidence of recurrance.
>
> So, I believe very strongly that a patient must have a level of trust
> with his or her healthcare practicioner - and that included feeling
> confident of the information they give you, and knowing they aren't
> going to be judgemental and condemning of healthful and normal
> parenting practices.
>
> The issue with bedside manner got to be such a big one, that medical
> schools are now teaching it specifically. I would assume that Dental
> Schools would do the same.
>
> Cathy Weeks
> Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01
>

Linz · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 147

"zeldabee" wrote in message $rd@newsreader.com...
> [removed the dentistry group from the x-post]
> "Linz" wrote:
>> "NOYB" wrote...
>> > "Irrational Number" wrote...
>> >> a_newsreader@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> Nursing does NOT. If you are
>> >> not actively expressing, milk does not come out.
>> >
>> > Really? Then why do they sell those special pads to be worn in
>> > the bras of nursing moms?
>>
>> They're mainly for the early weeks, when letdown happens a lot.
>> I gave mine away after a couple of months because they'd not been
>> necessary. I don't know any nursing mums who needed them after
>> about 6 months.
>
> I did, up until about a year. I've known women who leaked up until
> 18 months.

And I'm not afraid to be proved wrong!

Linz · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 147

"Dr Steve" wrote in message
news:%Da7e.1022$HK6.162@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> Ms. Rosalie,
>
> None of us dentists are against breastfeeding. We all encourage
> it.

Actually, the dentist that the OP saw /was/ against breastfeeding.
That's where this started from.

Linz · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 147

"Joel M. Eichen" wrote in message @x-privat.org...
>
> "Linz" wrote in message
> $2fj2$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...

>> Am I the only person who would follow the advice of the WHO and
>> UNICEF over a dental association?
>
> REPLY
>
> Why would you follow the advice
> from a music group about dentistry?

*applause*

Joel M. Eichen · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 73

I like walnuts myself!

Good catch by the way.

Joel;'

"carabelli" wrote in message$w62.157667@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> >
> > That's not to say that the dentists are nut friendly.........
>
> I'm quite pleasant when around pecans.
>
> carabelli
>
>

Joel M. Eichen · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 73

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Joel M. Eichen wrote:
> > This was not the choice we were presented. The discussion was whether
> > breast-feeding could cause cavities. Several dentists reported
> studies that
> > suggest that it can. Then the "hearers of bad news" went on the
> attack."
>
> But you *were* presented with that choice. The OP talked specifically
> about some of the rudeness of the first dentist, and wondered if he
> should seek a second opinion.

REPLY

OK, its always wise to get a secoind opinion to hear other strategies
........

If a patient is put off by someone's style, then a new practitioner is in
order.

Joel

>
> As for the studies, several of us have pointed to information on
> medline and other sources that shows that the studies that were
> presented had significant flaws. But rather than wondering if perhaps
> the AAPD recommendations might be wrong, or perhaps wondering if
> long-held believes were wrong, some dentists on this thread attacked
> our own studies.
>
> So, left with that, how are we supposed to proceed? Just say, "uh, OK,
> you must be right? Your studies *must* be superior?"
>
> Cathy Weeks
> Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01
>

Joel M. Eichen · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 73

"dragonlady" wrote in message@newssvr14-ext.news.prodigy.com...
> In article ,
> "Joel M. Eichen" wrote:
>
> > I agree. A good beside manner is important.
> > Besides the beside manner, intellectual honesty
> > is also important.
> >
> > I had a patient who refused antibiotics and refused
> > root canal therapy believing that the abscess
> > would go away if only enough eccinacea were applied.
> >
> > Needless to say, the tooth is now in the trash.
> >
> > But the patient is very happy in that her primary care
> > PHYSICIAN does not roll his eyes anymore when she
> > mentions eccinacea.
>
> Eccinacea has it's uses. However, it isn't a cure-all, and expecting it
> to deal with something like a need for a root canal is foolish.

REPLY

Yup, just making the point that no practititoner in their right mind
can make black into white. Some try, but in the long run, we shouldn't do
that.

Joel

>
> I certainly hope you don't roll your eyes at anyone who mentions
> alternative medical approaches, as long as they aren't doing anything
> actually dangerous (like turning down treatments that are needed). It
> wasn't all that long ago that physicians always rolled their eyes at
> acupuncture; they don't anymore.
>
> I used to see a doctor who was both certified as a family practice
> physician and as a homeopathist. He practiced in a place that supported
> wholistic approaches to medicine, and was probably the best doctor I've
> had. He managed several chronic conditions homeopathically that had
> been resistant to "normal" approaches. On the other hand, when a case
> of poison ivy got out of control (as it almost always does for me...) he
> prescribed antibiotics, antihistamines and steroids.
> --
> Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
>

Joel M. Eichen · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 73

"dragonlady" wrote in message@newssvr14-ext.news.prodigy.com...
> In article ,
> "Joel M. Eichen" wrote:
>
> > I agree. A good beside manner is important.
> > Besides the beside manner, intellectual honesty
> > is also important.
> >
> > I had a patient who refused antibiotics and refused
> > root canal therapy believing that the abscess
> > would go away if only enough eccinacea were applied.
> >
> > Needless to say, the tooth is now in the trash.
> >
> > But the patient is very happy in that her primary care
> > PHYSICIAN does not roll his eyes anymore when she
> > mentions eccinacea.
>
> Eccinacea has it's uses. However, it isn't a cure-all, and expecting it
> to deal with something like a need for a root canal is foolish.
>
> I certainly hope you don't roll your eyes at anyone who mentions
> alternative medical approaches, as long as they aren't doing anything
> actually dangerous (like turning down treatments that are needed). It
> wasn't all that long ago that physicians always rolled their eyes at
> acupuncture; they don't anymore.
>

REPLY

Actually, I never roll my eyes as that's not polite. But that does not stop
me from informing people what I have taken years and years to learn (and
where I learned it).

Its for their benefit, mainly, not mine!

Joel

> I used to see a doctor who was both certified as a family practice
> physician and as a homeopathist. He practiced in a place that supported
> wholistic approaches to medicine, and was probably the best doctor I've
> had. He managed several chronic conditions homeopathically that had
> been resistant to "normal" approaches. On the other hand, when a case
> of poison ivy got out of control (as it almost always does for me...) he
> prescribed antibiotics, antihistamines and steroids.
> --
> Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
>

Joel M. Eichen · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 73

"carabelli" wrote in message$w62.394168@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Joel M. Eichen" wrote .......
>
> >
> > Why do we have such a "feelgood society?".....
> >
> > Joel
> >
>
> Joel!!!! FYI, some conservative is spoofing your addy.
>
> carabelli
>
>

YIKES! Jan Drew is going to lose two accounts over this.

Joel (the real one).

Joel M. Eichen · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 73

Just as an aside, if a patient asked me about mother's milk, I would tell
them where to possibly look for the answers, but I would profess zero
knowledge about the finer points of breast feeding.

This is because its an emotionally-charged issue as we have seen right here.

A parallel happened the few times someone asked me (in practrice) about
whether mercury fillings poison people. I learned my lesson. Dentistry is
about what we CAN do for people not about arguments abouts what we
should/should not do.

Joel

People always say I have a good beside manner.

"Joel M. Eichen" wrote in message@x-privat.org...
> I like walnuts myself!
>
> Good catch by the way.
>
>
> Joel;'
>
>
>
> "carabelli" wrote in message
> $w62.157667@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > >
> > > That's not to say that the dentists are nut friendly.........
> >
> > I'm quite pleasant when around pecans.
> >
> > carabelli
> >
> >
>
>