My wife nurses our 21month old son (overnight) - he has cavi

Mark & Steven Bornfeld · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

>
> *That*, I think is a perfectly reasonable recommendation.
> Forced bedtime and/or night weaning (at 5 months, when the first tooth
> erupts, at 12 months, whatever) is not a reasonable recommendation.
> (Not suggesting that you made that recommendation--by this time
> the thread is all swimming in my head and I'm not sure who said
> what Wink

>
> Best wishes,
> Ericka
>

Our daughter was weaned from the breast at about one year. Her teeth
began erupting at about 8 months.
My wife returned to work at about 3 months post-partum. We resisted
using a bottle, but I used this tube feeder with pumped breastmilk,
otherwise my wife wouldn't have gotten any rest at all.
Because of difficulty in getting enough breastfeedings in, we started
our daughter on solid food (I believe) too early--before 4 months, and
she had difficulty with it. Eventually we found a way to balance all
the different feedings. She is caries-free at age 8.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Archived from group: misc>kids

zeldabee · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 121

[removed the dentistry group from the x-post]
"Linz" wrote:
> "NOYB" wrote...
> > "Irrational Number" wrote...
> >> a_newsreader@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> Nursing does NOT. If you are
> >> not actively expressing, milk does not come out.
> >
> > Really? Then why do they sell those special pads to be worn in the
> > bras of nursing moms?
>
> They're mainly for the early weeks, when letdown happens a lot.
> I gave mine away after a couple of months because they'd not been
> necessary. I don't know any nursing mums who needed them after about 6
> months.

I did, up until about a year. I've known women who leaked up until 18
months.

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m http://NewsReader.Com/

Mark & Steven Bornfeld · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

Rosalie B. wrote:

> "Tony Bad" wrote:
>
>>"Buzzy Bee" wrote in message
>>@4ax.com...
>>
>>>On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:39:35 -0500, "Donna Metler"
>>> wrote:
>>>. There's no way I'm going to wake her up when she falls asleep while
>>>
>>>>feeding at 3:00 am to brush her teeth!
>
>
> The gauze swab out of the mouth might work at least to make you feel
> you were doing something, but depending on the basic heredity she has
> it might not be necessary.

If done right (admittedly a big if) it can be effective. The
smooth-surface caries usually seen in primary teeth usually requires
really poor oral hygiene and extended contact with carbohydrate. Gauze
is fairly effective at lowering carbohydrate and bacterial load in areas
where you're likely to see this caries (near the gumline). This is (in
my experience) NOT the case once the six-year molars erupt, where the
most common caries is pit-fissure caries. Gauze will do nothing to
decrease the risk of this.

Steve
>
>
>>>I think the dentists would recommend starving her in that case Wink

>>>
>>>Behind the sarcasm though, I have a point. There are a lot of
>>>comments here about what is good for babies' *teeth* from dentists,
>>>but no consideration of what us good for the babies health in general.
>>>Its a trade off, imo, especially with babies who teethe very early (I
>>>know a newborn with teeth - it would be very dangerous to deny a baby
>>>that young food overnight).
>>>
>>>Its something that happens in other specialisms as well, but perhaps
>>>dentistry is particularly prone to it due to having less general
>>>medical education.
>>>
>>>Megan
>>>--
>>>Seoras David Montgomery, 7th May 2003, 17 hours.
>>
>>http://seoras.farr-montgomery.com
>>
>>>DS2: Lachlan Alan, 28th February 2005
>>
>>Since you find so little value in our insights so, please remove
>>sci.med.dentistry when continuing this thread.
>>
>>T
>>
>
> There are good dentists, good parents, good doctors etc, but there are
> also really horrible ones of each type. I've seen really bad advice
> given by doctors (such as the one who told my deceased SIL that she
> should wait 6 months to see whether the lump in her breast developed
> any farther), and I've actually had a dentist who later spent time in
> jail for mfg and distributing drugs.
>
> But I think the discussion of the dental organization recommendations
> is not out of line, even if sarcastic. As parents we can't just rely
> on a dentists interpretation of the guidelines, especially a
> newly-minted one.
>
> I get these posts through misc.kids, and I don't know when the
> sci.med.dentistry got added, but we will all lose if you go off in a
> huff. But you will lose more than we will.
>
> grandma Rosalie

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Mark & Steven Bornfeld · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

Welches wrote:

>
> Well I haven't cut all the nonsense Smile

Just because it was mo big deal for
> your daughter doesn't mean that it's not a deal for others. #1, I could (and
> still can) take her temperature, dose with calpol and then brush her teeth
> afterwards without her waking. #2, I can't. Any one of those will wake her.
> And once she's been asleep and woken like that, she will likely be very
> distressed for half an hour and probably not resettle for over an hour, and
> also wake more frequently overnight.
> Don't judge all children on the basis of your experience with one.
> Debbie
>
>

I hope we're all grownups here and can try to use our best judgement
when it comes to our children. I certainly wouldn't expect all children
to be treated alike. As long as we have all the information we can and
can live with the consequences of the choices we make and act
appropriately on those, most of our kids will be in pretty good shape.

Best,
Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Mark & Steven Bornfeld · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

Circe wrote:
>
> Interesting. None of the cavities my older kids had at ages 3-5 were at the
> gumline. They were, instead, either pit-fissure caries on the top of the
> molars or caries between the molars (both of them have quite crowded molars;
> the 3yo without cavities, by contrast, has lots of space between all his
> teeth).

I should back up and say that caries between the molars is also
smooth-surface caries, and has much more in common with gumline caries
than they do with pit-fissure caries.
I see few children 3-5 with any caries at all. Did they receive
fluoride, either through water or supplements?

Steve

>
> Both of them had cavities develop *after* they'd stopped nursing and before
> their six year molars erupted (only my son has them), although neither of
> them has had a new cavity in the past 18 months or so.
>
> Given this information, it seems quite unlikely to me that my older
> children's caries are in any way related to nursing, though they might well
> be related to less-than-ideal dental hygiene (I admit, we are far from
> perfect in this arena) and crowded molars.

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

NOYB · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> My
> father even goes so far to say that the two most important issues with
> preventing decay is hygiene in conjunction with diet, that in recent
> years he's seen more childhood caries associated with the drinking of
> soft drinks, and that despite the use of flouide in the drinking water.

Today, many kids drink bottled water without fluoride. I attribute the
increase in childhood caries to the reduction in the consumption of
fluoridated city water.

Nan · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1336

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:55:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

>
>"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> My
>> father even goes so far to say that the two most important issues with
>> preventing decay is hygiene in conjunction with diet, that in recent
>> years he's seen more childhood caries associated with the drinking of
>> soft drinks, and that despite the use of flouide in the drinking water.
>
>Today, many kids drink bottled water without fluoride. I attribute the
>increase in childhood caries to the reduction in the consumption of
>fluoridated city water.

At my dd's dental visit the hygienist stated, "fluoridated water is
good for the teeth developing but not yet erupted. It won't do a
thing for teeth already present."
We don't have fluoridated water, but I give her a vitamin with
fluoride supplement as well as have her rinse with ACT treatment.
Was the hygienist incorrect?

Nan

NOYB · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

"Nan" wrote in message @4ax.com...
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:55:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
>
>>
>>"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
>>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>> My
>>> father even goes so far to say that the two most important issues with
>>> preventing decay is hygiene in conjunction with diet, that in recent
>>> years he's seen more childhood caries associated with the drinking of
>>> soft drinks, and that despite the use of flouide in the drinking water.
>>
>>Today, many kids drink bottled water without fluoride. I attribute the
>>increase in childhood caries to the reduction in the consumption of
>>fluoridated city water.
>
> At my dd's dental visit the hygienist stated, "fluoridated water is
> good for the teeth developing but not yet erupted. It won't do a
> thing for teeth already present."
> We don't have fluoridated water, but I give her a vitamin with
> fluoride supplement as well as have her rinse with ACT treatment.
> Was the hygienist incorrect?
>

No, she was not. Fluoride in drinking water gets into the saliva and helps
to remineralize the teeth. Teeth are in a constant state of
demineralization/remineralization . Whenever you eat or drink anything, the
bacteria present in your mouth use the sugars in the food/drink to produce
an acid. The acid dissolves the mineral content of the enamel. Your saliva
helps to partially buffer the acidity, and helps to wash away the sugars.
Saliva also contains minerals like fluorida and calcium that help to
remineralize (ie--"heal") the enamel. Once a hole develops in the enamel
(aka--"cavity"), fluoride won't help. But in the early stages of
demineralization, the fluoride in toothpastes, drinking water, and mouth
rinses like ACT absolutely help.

Nan · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1336

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:41:44 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

>No, she was not. Fluoride in drinking water gets into the saliva and helps
>to remineralize the teeth. Teeth are in a constant state of
>demineralization/remineralization . Whenever you eat or drink anything, the
>bacteria present in your mouth use the sugars in the food/drink to produce
>an acid. The acid dissolves the mineral content of the enamel. Your saliva
>helps to partially buffer the acidity, and helps to wash away the sugars.
>Saliva also contains minerals like fluorida and calcium that help to
>remineralize (ie--"heal") the enamel. Once a hole develops in the enamel
>(aka--"cavity"), fluoride won't help. But in the early stages of
>demineralization, the fluoride in toothpastes, drinking water, and mouth
>rinses like ACT absolutely help.

Thank you for such a thorough answer Smile

Nan

carabelli · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote .........

> "Early childhood caries was not found to be related to the type of
> feeding; however, the number of sugary snacks between meals and a
> cariogenic diet were strongly related to early childhood caries."
>
> I don't mean to just be argumentative. ...........

?? The only thing I stated was that these were interesting abstracts related
to the thread.

Now if I posted what I personally thought of breastfeeding 24+ month old
kids, and having them sleeping in your bed every night, I suppose there
would be an argument - but I didn't

carabelli

Barbara Bomberger · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 659

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:46:14 -0400, "Tony Bad"
wrote:

>
>"Cat" wrote in message
>$Vf.4177691@news000.worldonline.dk...
>>
>> Isn't it so that bacteria can attack dirty teeth but not clean teeth? So
>> in fact you should brush your teeth and THEN eat? (and then probably
>> brush again).
>>
>> If you brush before bedtime and then nurse to sleep I can't see any
>> problem there.
>>
>> Tine, Denmark
>
>Brushing removes the food residues, not the bacteria. Once those bacteria
>are there, you aren't getting rid of them that easy! Night-time and feeding
>just before bed can and does cause decay...I have seen it on many occasions,
>with both breast and bottle fed infants. I have read that there is a lower
>incidence of decay in breastfed infants, and while some attribute this to
>beneficial effects of breast milk, I think it has as much to do with the
>fact most mothers who breast feed longer tend to be more health conscious,
>and will take better steps to start proper oral hygiene sooner. Just my
>observations.
>
>May ask you a question??...I am not asking to start trouble, I just would
>like to hear your insights...why would a 21 month old still require
>night-time or just before bed feeding? Both of my children were breastfed,
>although not until they were 21 months old, but once they hit about 10
>months they were on a three meal a day feeding schedule and didn't "eat"
>anything at bedtime, much less in the middle of the night.
>
>Just curious.
>
some people wake up at night and want something to eat or drink. I
wake up every night wanting something to drink and more than a few
nights have had at least a glass of milk, and Im a grown up.

Some children need additiional nutrition during the night because
although they are eating three measl they are small.

Some children breast feed at night for comfort, such as when they wake
up.

Barb
>T
>

Cat · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 81

Barbara Bomberger wrote:
>>May ask you a question??...I am not asking to start trouble, I just would
>>like to hear your insights...why would a 21 month old still require
>>night-time or just before bed feeding? Both of my children were breastfed,
>>although not until they were 21 months old, but once they hit about 10
>>months they were on a three meal a day feeding schedule and didn't "eat"
>>anything at bedtime, much less in the middle of the night.
>>
>>Just curious.
>>

Partly because nursing is much much more than about food. It's about
closeness, bonding, security, diary and snacking.

As long as you would give a child milk nursing is beneficial. I believe
kids need milk about 4 years for nutritional reasons. Beyond that it's
not necessary, and in some parts of the world they can't even tolerate
cows milk beyond that age.

I find it more natural to have human milk when milk is necessary than
milk from another mammal - may this be a cow, a dog, a pig, a cat or a
whale.

Tine, Denmark

Chris Craig · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 131

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

> That said, this ignorance regarding breastfeeding probably
> doesn't affect her ability to figure out that your son has cavities or her
> skill in filling those cavities. It's common for dentists to be ignorant
> about breastfeeding, as it's not their area of specialization. It would
> be a huge deal for a pediatric dentist to be ignorant of diagnosing and
> treating cavities, which is a mainstay of her practice.

It doesn't matter how good the dentist is if they're saying stuff like
that - they don't deserve the business. I'm sure there are plenty of other
highly qualified and not so ignorant (and rude) dentists.

--
Chris Craig
http://ciotog.net

Lesa · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 74

"zeldabee" wrote in message $rd@newsreader.com...
> [removed the dentistry group from the x-post]
> "Linz" wrote:
>> "NOYB" wrote...
>> > "Irrational Number" wrote...
>> >> a_newsreader@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> Nursing does NOT. If you are
>> >> not actively expressing, milk does not come out.
>> >
>> > Really? Then why do they sell those special pads to be worn in the
>> > bras of nursing moms?
>>
>> They're mainly for the early weeks, when letdown happens a lot.
>> I gave mine away after a couple of months because they'd not been
>> necessary. I don't know any nursing mums who needed them after about 6
>> months.
>
> I did, up until about a year. I've known women who leaked up until 18
> months.
>
I leaked will past 12 months. I'm fiarly sure my was due to irregular
scheduled though. I had no way to pumpo during the day at work, so just
nursed morning and night, and we used formula during the day. Before I get
any BF acitivists upset, this was 17 years ago, and I managed a group home.
There was no way to set up a private space just for me to nurse.

Joel M. Eichen · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 73

This is true, give me a politically correct, sloppy,
unskilled dentist anytime who can sweet-talk me
into what I want to hear ........

When his work goes bad, there are lots
more willing to replace it!

Joel M. Eichen DDS

"Chris Craig" wrote in message@ciotog.net...
> Ericka Kammerer wrote:
>
> > That said, this ignorance regarding breastfeeding probably
> > doesn't affect her ability to figure out that your son has cavities or
her
> > skill in filling those cavities. It's common for dentists to be
ignorant
> > about breastfeeding, as it's not their area of specialization. It would
> > be a huge deal for a pediatric dentist to be ignorant of diagnosing and
> > treating cavities, which is a mainstay of her practice.
>
> It doesn't matter how good the dentist is if they're saying stuff like
> that - they don't deserve the business. I'm sure there are plenty of other
> highly qualified and not so ignorant (and rude) dentists.
>
> --
> Chris Craig
> http://ciotog.net