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Nathan A. Barclay
Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 175
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:21 am Post subject: Re: VOUCHERS |
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wrote in message@4ax.com...
> "Nathan A. Barclay" wrote:
> Martin Garbus, a First Amendment expert and lawyer who has appeared
> before the U. S Supreme Court, argues that, "... this U.S. Supreme Court
is
> seizing power, and in doing so it is radically changing the law and this
> country. The Rehnquist Court rejects much of the last sixty-five years of
> America's constitutional law; rejects the balance between Congress, the
> Court, and the President; and rejects the form of our democracy that these
> cases established. It does so to protect entrenched interests at the
> expense of unpopular minorities. It attempts to justify its new position
by
> discarding prior cases and by looking to resurrect and reinterpret the
> Constitution as no other court has ever done. Instead of a balance of
> power, we have an attempt at judicial exclusivity at the expense of the
> Congress and 'We the People.' "175
This is an interesting absurdity. The Supreme Court refuses to exercise
power to control the actions of states or of other branches of the federal
government, and Mr. Garbus accuses it of "seizing power"? It looks to me
like the only power the Court is "seizing" in these cases is the power to
stop meddling as much as previous courts did. Thus, what the Court is doing
is not really seizing power at all, but rather relinquishing some pieces of
previously siezed power.
Archived from group: alt>parenting>spanking |
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buckeye-ELO
Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 171
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: VOUCHERS |
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"Nathan A. Barclay" wrote:
>
> wrote in message
> @4ax.com...
> > "Nathan A. Barclay" wrote:
>
> > Martin Garbus, a First Amendment expert and lawyer who has appeared
> > before the U. S Supreme Court, argues that, "... this U.S. Supreme Court
>:|is
> > seizing power, and in doing so it is radically changing the law and this
> > country. The Rehnquist Court rejects much of the last sixty-five years of
> > America's constitutional law; rejects the balance between Congress, the
> > Court, and the President; and rejects the form of our democracy that these
> > cases established. It does so to protect entrenched interests at the
> > expense of unpopular minorities. It attempts to justify its new position
>:|by
> > discarding prior cases and by looking to resurrect and reinterpret the
> > Constitution as no other court has ever done. Instead of a balance of
> > power, we have an attempt at judicial exclusivity at the expense of the
> > Congress and 'We the People.' "175
>
>:|This is an interesting absurdity.
Your unsubstantiated claim is noted.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ordinary or extraordinary claims require ordinary or extraordinary proof.
If you're going to claim something and especially something outlandish
you're going to need some pretty extraordinary and/or irrefutable proof to
back up such a claim. "Where's the beef?" Where's the ordinary or
extraordinary proof for their ordinary or extraordinary claims? If one is
not responding with ordinary or extraordinary, *factual* proof, then the
claim is not worth considering
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ as Homer@nospam said]
Why is asking for "proof" considered truculence? Do you consider it
truculence for a judge to ask for evidence in a trial. Would you rather
that
people just testified that they believed in the guilt of the suspect?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[as Gray Shockley said:]
(Your "opinion" is not an adequate citation.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>:|The Supreme Court refuses to exercise
>:|power to control the actions of states or of other branches of the federal
>:|government, and Mr. Garbus accuses it of "seizing power"?
Can you say Bush v Gore?
Can you say, Newdow v Elk Grove to name just a few recent examples of the
USSC negating state laws, state court rulings, etc.
Here is the footnote for that section. You might want to do some reading
before you make a bigger fool of yourself:
Only a fool disagrees with someone when you haven't a clue what
they had to say, what their evidence was, etc.
175. Garbus, Martin, Courting Disaster: The Supreme Court and the Unmaking
of American Law, (New York, NY: Times Books, Henry Holt & Company, 2002),
p.1; also see: Noonan, Jr., John T., Narrowing The Nation's Power: The
Supreme Court Sides with the States, (Berkeley, CA: University of
California, 2002). John Noonan is the Robbins Professor of Law Emeritus at
the University of California, Berkeley, and a senior judge of the United
States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.
>:|It looks to me
Which is irrelevant.
So this was your best shot when you asked me to back something up, which I
did, your best shot is to pick out basically a off topic line or two and
try to run somewhere with it?
Very very poor and lame.
BTW, I'll throw this one in too:
CAN YOU SAY POLITICS:
http://www.law.msu.edu/lawrev/99-4/4-Hensley.pdf
[pp 878-79]
AS OF 1999
[The Rehnquist Court became the Rehnquist Court in 1986]
.. . . the Rehnquist Court has decided a total of sixteen Establishment
Clause cases, and eleven of the sixteen have been decided conservatively.
Edwards v. Aguillard (1987)
Corporation v. Amos (1987) Minor case
Bowen v. Kendrick (1988)
Allegheny v. ACLU (1989)
Pittsburgh v. ACLU (1989)
Texas Monthly v. Bullock (1989) Minor case
Hernandez v. Commission (1989) Minor case
Board v. Mergens (1990)
Swaggert v. Board (1990) Minor case
Lee v. Weisman (1992)
Lamb’s Chapel v. Center Moriches (1993)
Zobrest v. Catalina (1993)
Plurality Kiryas Joel v. Grumet (1994)
Rosenberger v. Virginia (1995)
Capital Square v. Pinette (1995)
Agostini v. Felton (1997)
Twelve of the sixteen cases are classified as being of major importance,
and eight of the twelve major cases were decided conservatively.
Seven of these eight major conservative decisions involved the Court
applying existing precedent; only one of the major conservative decisions –
Agostini v. Felton – involved the creation of a new conservative precedent.
These
statistical results suggest several patterns in the Rehnquist Court’s
Establishment Clause decision making. First, the Rehnquist Court is clearly
engaged in a struggle over the proper interpretation of the Establishment
Clause; although the Court’s more conservative members have predominated,
liberal majorities have occasionally emerged in cases of major importance.
Second, the conservative wing of the Court has not been successful in
radically altering the Court’s Establishment Clause jurisprudence, although
the recent Agostini decision may be the harbinger of more radical change.
Since 1999 there has been:
SANTA FE INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DIST. V. DOE
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/display.html?terms=establishment%20clause&url=/supct/html/99-62.ZO.html
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R3E943019
MITCHELL V. HELMS (98-1648) 530 U.S. 793 (2000)
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/display.html?terms=establishment%20clause&url=/supct/html/98-1648.ZD.html
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C1A925019
GOOD NEWS CLUB V. MILFORD CENTRAL SCHOOL (2001)
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/display.html?terms=establishment%20clause&url=/supct/html/99-2036.ZO.html
http://makeashorterlink.com/?B2C924019
ZELMAN V. SIMMONS-HARRIS (2002
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/display.html?terms=establishment%20clause&url=/supct/html/00-1751.ZD1.html
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J2D932019
Chabad of Southern Ohio v. Cincinnati, 537 US _ (2002)
(In chambers)
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/02dec20020830/www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/02pdf/02-449.pdf
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O67932019
LOCKE V. DAVEY
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/display.html?terms=establishment%20clause&url=/supct/html/02-1315.ZO.html
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z60A21019
ELK GROVE UNIFIED SCHOOL DIST. V. NEWDOW (2004)
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/display.html?terms=establishment%20clause&url=/supct/html/02-1624.ZC2.html
http://makeashorterlink.com/?D2B952019 |
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Lannie Ruvin
Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 2
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: VOUCHERS |
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"Dana Raffaniello" wrote in message news:...
> wrote in message
> @4ax.com...
> > Legalizing School Vouchers
> >
> > The Bush Administration is a big proponent of school vouchers.
> > The door was at least partially opened for vouchers after a 2002
> > Supreme Court ruling in Zelman v. Simmons-Harris.
> >
> > Opponents of school vouchers believe they will force citizens-Christians,
> > Jews, Muslims, and atheists-to pay for religious indoctrination of school
> > children
>
> That is better than the secular humanist indoctrination they
> are getting at public schools
And of course you can give examples to support your allegation, right?
lr
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