My wife nurses our 21month old son (overnight) - he has cavi

a_newsreader · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

Okay, today we went to the local Pediatric Dental specialist - she
claimed that our son has the need for several fillings and blamed it
squarely and with no hestitation on the fact that my wife is still
breastfeeding him (even overnight - he sleeps with her/us).

At first we blamed ourselves (I admittedly blaming my wife as it was
her who let our son start sleeping with us, much against all the advice
we'd been given by experienced parents).

A couple of hours later however, my wife reckoned that this dentist was
(milking the situation - no pun intended). She just couldn't believe
that natural breast milk would create these cavities (its a new
surgery, very plush and the dentists there are quite young(ish)). This
(female) dentist, said that it was a common misconception to continue
to breastfeed after the first 5months. I took this "professional's"
opinion straight at face value - but call us cynical (we are in North
Africa), and the 'truth' isn't always forthcoming (she was trained in
Paris, young, educated but we both suspect not herself a mother).

Later that afternoon (after looking around on the internet) I'm now
beginning to wonder whether this female dentist had a clue about what
she was talking about. According to most of what I've read, there
isn't any link between breastfeeding and cavities (though I have read
that carbs mixed with the milk causes cavities, as does sugar, lack of
dental hygiene etc).

We're beginning to wonder whether a second or third opinion (of course
from alternative dentists) would be best before we jump into putting
our son through any dental surgery. Preferably from a dentist who *is*
pro-breastfeeding.

Incidentally, we think that what he has developed, is probably a
combination of hereditary and lack of brushing.

P.S. I've just talked to my wife who admitted that this dentist made
her cry for hours after this visit (example, when we were with the
dentist, our son wanted to feed and my wife naturally let him -
straight away the dentist told us this was VERY wrong).

Please advise.

Many thanks.

Archived from group: misc>kids

Cathy Weeks · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 520

a_newsrea...@yahoo.com wrote:

Well, my daughter is 3 years and 3 months of age, and she is still
nursing, and has no cavities as far as I can tell. She still nurses to
sleep about half the time, and when she's sick, she still nurses in the
middle of the night. (She sleeps all night under normal conditions).

My parents are dentists, and they haven't said the first thing about
nursing causing cavities, and in fact have said that it tends to
inhibit cavities in most people.

IF your son has a tendency toward cavities, then it might be a problem.
But breastmilk has anti-bacterial properties, and only in the presence
of other sugar or carbs on the teeth can it cause a problem. We've
always just brushed my daughter's teeth right before bed, and then
nursed right after that, and so far, so good.

As for your dentist's suggestion that there's no benefit beyond 5
months of age; that's just plain wrong, AND in my opinion, dangerous.
If a baby isn't getting breastmilk, then they must get their fluids
elsewhere, and breastmilk is the safest source of fluids for babies.
The World Health Organization suggests that babies should be nursed for
2 full years, and beyond that for as long as both mother and child want
to.

I would get a second opinion on his teeth, and see if the fillings are
really necessary. But make absolutely sure to brush his teeth before
bed, and nothing but water after that or breastmilk, or in the worst
case is that your wife may need to night-wean your son, IF he has a
tendency toward cavities.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

Cathy Weeks · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 520

a_newsrea...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Okay, today we went to the local Pediatric Dental specialist - she
> claimed that our son has the need for several fillings and blamed it
> squarely and with no hestitation on the fact that my wife is still
> breastfeeding him (even overnight - he sleeps with her/us).
>
> At first we blamed ourselves (I admittedly blaming my wife as it was
> her who let our son start sleeping with us, much against all the
advice
> we'd been given by experienced parents).

I forgot to mention, that my daughter slept with us until she was a
little past her 3rd birthday, and then she asked to sleep in her own
bed, where's she's been ever since. It was never forced, and was *her*
decision. Now that said, she has her own room, with a regular-sized
bed in it, all ready for her to use, and sometimes she chose to nap in
there, and she knew it was "her" bed.

There are plenty of experienced parents who let their kids sleep with
them, and it works out fine in the end.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

Irrational Number · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1018

a_newsreader@yahoo.com wrote:

> Okay, today we went to the local Pediatric Dental specialist - she
> claimed that our son has the need for several fillings and blamed it
> squarely and with no hestitation on the fact that my wife is still
> breastfeeding him (even overnight - he sleeps with her/us).

Ack! I hate her, your dentist, that is, not your wife!

> A couple of hours later however, my wife reckoned that this dentist was
> (milking the situation - no pun intended). She just couldn't believe
> that natural breast milk would create these cavities (its a new
> surgery, very plush and the dentists there are quite young(ish)). This
> (female) dentist, said that it was a common misconception to continue
> to breastfeed after the first 5months.

What??? My dentist said that it's pooling of liquid
containing sugars (apple juice, cow's milk, breastmilk)
in the mouth that causes calcification, which leads to
cavities. Using bottles causes pooling, because liquid
comes out regardless. Nursing does NOT. If you are
not actively expressing, milk does not come out.

> Later that afternoon (after looking around on the internet) I'm now
> beginning to wonder whether this female dentist had a clue about what
> she was talking about. According to most of what I've read, there
> isn't any link between breastfeeding and cavities (though I have read
> that carbs mixed with the milk causes cavities, as does sugar, lack of
> dental hygiene etc).

I believe this is correct.

> We're beginning to wonder whether a second or third opinion (of course
> from alternative dentists) would be best before we jump into putting
> our son through any dental surgery. Preferably from a dentist who *is*
> pro-breastfeeding.

Agreed.

> Incidentally, we think that what he has developed, is probably a
> combination of hereditary and lack of brushing.

I think heredity plays a BIG part in this. Both of my
parents have very bad teeth and my brother and I
have bad teeth. Which is why I am being so vigilant
about Pillbug's teeth. I have had too many cavities
and crowns to count, and if forcing Pillbug to brush
morning and night prevents even one cavity, it would
be worth it.

> P.S. I've just talked to my wife who admitted that this dentist made
> her cry for hours after this visit (example, when we were with the
> dentist, our son wanted to feed and my wife naturally let him -
> straight away the dentist told us this was VERY wrong).

I'm so sorry your wife had to go through this. It's
difficult enough to be a first-time parent and to do
what you believe in, and to have a so-called professional
make you feel like you did something wrong is very
upsetting. Let your wife know that, at least, one person
here in this newsgroup is on her side!

Basically, we've done exactly what you've done: nursed
and co-slept. The only difference, which you have already
addressed, is brushing. But, of course, there's also
genetics. So, get another opinion, but stand firm on
what you feel in your gut.

-- Anita --

Jamie Clark · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 5209

Run, do not walk, to a new dentist. I'd call before hand to ask if the
dentist is pro-breastfeeding. This woman is a quack. It's one thing not to
want to do extended breastfeeding yourself (not even going to get into the
discussion if almost 2 years even counts as "extended" yet), but to tell
someone else that it is WRONG, well, it's just wrong.

I'm in shock over this entire situation -- not that your child has cavities,
but that the dentist is so blatantly against breastfeeding.
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
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sister touches her, and likes to scoot under the family room rug and then
say, "hep me, hep me, hep me!"
Addison Grace, 9/30/04 -- The Flapper, who flaps her arms and legs when
excited, and now that she can sit up, refuses to recline at all!

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Diana H. · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 4

I would say find a new dentist!!

Diana

Irrational Number · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1018

Ilse Witch wrote:

> I know that there is a correlation between having babies sleep with a
> bottle of milk or juice and developing cavities. I would not be totally
> surprised if this link also exists for nursing during the night. The issue
> is that cavities develop because of the sugars in the milk or juice.
> Breastmilk contains a form of sugars as well, [...]

True, but it's not the sugars in and of themselves,
it's if they stay in the mouth and allow bacteria to
feed on them. Bottles drip continuously, so babies
using bottles to sleep (i.e., my Pillbug) would have
this pooling effect. My dentists discourages bottles
containing anything other than water, be the liquid
cow's milk, apple juice, or even breastmilk.

However, if the baby is latched on but NOT NURSING,
there is no danger of pooling. By definition, if baby
is sleeping, baby is not expressing, so there's no pooling.
It's not NURSING that's the problem, it's pooling of
any liquid containing sugars in the mouth.

-- Anita --

Circe · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1820

"Tony Bad" wrote in message$Bq5.295@fe09.lga...
> Brushing removes the food residues, not the bacteria. Once those bacteria
> are there, you aren't getting rid of them that easy! Night-time and
feeding
> just before bed can and does cause decay...I have seen it on many
occasions,
> with both breast and bottle fed infants. I have read that there is a lower
> incidence of decay in breastfed infants, and while some attribute this to
> beneficial effects of breast milk, I think it has as much to do with the
> fact most mothers who breast feed longer tend to be more health conscious,
> and will take better steps to start proper oral hygiene sooner. Just my
> observations.
>
But in this case, the decay is in the front teeth (IIRC) and that sort of
decay (sometimes called "baby bottle mouth" is not associated with
breastfeeding because breastmilk does not and will not pool in the front of
the mouth the way milk from a bottle will. Thus, it is highly unlikely

> May ask you a question??...I am not asking to start trouble, I just would
> like to hear your insights...why would a 21 month old still require
> night-time or just before bed feeding? Both of my children were breastfed,
> although not until they were 21 months old, but once they hit about 10
> months they were on a three meal a day feeding schedule and didn't "eat"
> anything at bedtime, much less in the middle of the night.
>
Some kids (like some adults) get hungry/thirsty in the night and
want a snack. For young children who are still nursing, it's a heck of a lot
easier for mom to nurse said child than to get up and get the child
something to eat or drink.

As for falling asleep, nursing is a comforting, calming activity that allows
excitable toddlers to drift off to sleep (certainly the case for my 3y1m
son). I'm sure he'll learn to fall asleep without nursing in much the same
way he's learned to sleep through most nights without nursing, but I'm not
in any tremendous rush to do so. Sometime in the next few months would be
good, but I haven't placed a timetable on it.

My 3yo, BTW, has both night-nursed and nursed to sleep for much longer than
my older two children, but he's the only one who reached age 3 without a
cavity. Go figure.
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Mr. Congeniality (7), the Diva (5) and the Race Car Fanatic (3)

I have PMS and ESP...I'm the bitch who knows everything! (T-shirt slogan)

Cathy Weeks · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 520

Tony Bad wrote:

> I think the issue is not what the child is being fed, but when. At
the risk
> of being branded an "idiot", as I see many have you have done after
hearing
> one side of a conversation, providing a food source for bacteria just
before
> a child goes to sleep is a bad thing for the teeth. I have given this
advice
> to many patients in the hope they understand the risks of feeding
patterns,
> not as a condemnation of breast-feeding.

Tony,
I'm not a dentist, but my parents are (GPs, not Pediatric, though) and
they told me breastfeeding caries are very rare, and usually only a
problem if the child has a genetic tendency toward caries in the first
place.

The research I've read is that breastmilk *BY ITSELF* is an
anti-bacterial agent, and that it actually inhibits the development of
cavities. However, breastmilk in the presence of other foods on the
teeth, then changes from an inhibitor to a promoter.

Thus good hygiene - brushing from every evening after eating, but
before nursing to sleep is enough to prevent cavities in most babies.
My understanding is that there is also a difference between going to
sleep with a bottle vs. a breast, because breasts (at least not after
the first few months!)don't leak milk into the mouth over long periods
of time whereas a bottle does.

I do agree, though, that just asking a dentist "are you
pro-breastfeeding" is probably not a good way to go about getting the
info that is needed. Perhaps asking "do you support breastfeeding
during the first two years of life, as the World Health Organization
recommends?" might be better, but probably not. I get the idea that
really, you won't get a good understanding of the dentist's beliefs
unless you are asking more direct questions.

If the info that I've presented above is outdated, I'd love some links
to current research.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to a cavity-free 3.3 year old nursling (who still nurses to sleep
sometimes)

Circe · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1820

"NOYB" wrote in message$go4.1443@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Irrational Number" wrote in message
> @nospam.com...
> > a_newsreader@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Nursing does NOT. If you are
> > not actively expressing, milk does not come out.
>
> Really? Then why do they sell those special pads to be worn in the bras
of
> nursing moms?

Breast pads are very seldom necessary after the first few months of
breastfeeding. Leaking milk is mainly a symptom of engorgement and/or
overproduction at the onset and during the establishment of lactation. While
I suppose it remains a persistent problem for a small proportion of women, I
don't know many women who were nursing at 6 months who were still leaking
(except possibly in response to a baby crying).

FWIW, I only needed breast pads for a couple of days or weeks at most, and
that was when I was tandem nursing a 2yo and newborn and probably could have
produced enough milk to feed a small army.
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Mr. Congeniality (7), the Diva (5) and the Race Car Fanatic (3)

I have PMS and ESP...I'm the bitch who knows everything! (T-shirt slogan)

Cathy Weeks · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 520

Cathy Weeks wrote:

> Thus good hygiene - brushing from every evening after eating, but
> before nursing to sleep is enough to prevent cavities in most babies.
> My understanding is that there is also a difference between going to
> sleep with a bottle vs. a breast, because breasts (at least not after
> the first few months!)don't leak milk into the mouth over long
periods
> of time whereas a bottle does.

http://askdrsears.com/faq/bf3.asp

I thought this might be useful. The writer is a pediatrician, not a
dentist, though.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

Cathy Weeks · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 520

Tony Bad wrote:

> May ask you a question??...I am not asking to start trouble, I just
would
> like to hear your insights...why would a 21 month old still require
> night-time or just before bed feeding? Both of my children were
breastfed,
> although not until they were 21 months old, but once they hit about
10
> months they were on a three meal a day feeding schedule and didn't
"eat"
> anything at bedtime, much less in the middle of the night.

Every child, and every parent's philosophies are a bit different. My
daughter wouldn't give up nursing at that age without a huge fight. She
LOVED to nurse, and still does, though it's not nearly the "needy"
thing that it once was. Weaning her by one year would have been
difficult and probably traumatic. We also never had a "schedule" -
rather I let her nurse whenever she wanted (and if I was willing, that
is). She was eating roughly 3 solid food meals per day by a year, and a
couple of small snacks as well, but breastmilk was her only regular
fluid until she was around 18 months of age.

She's 3.3 years old, and still nurses, but often it's just a cuddly
time for us, and she doesn't nurse for very long. She falls asleep
nursing at night only about 1/2 the time, othewise she falls asleep by
herself.

Is it better for the child to do it my way? Well, *I* certainly think
so, but honestly, there are plenty of sweet, compassionate, outgoing,
fearless kids like my daughter who were never breastfed, or who were
weaned from the breast by 1 year or whatever. Wink

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

Circe · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1820

"Dr Steve" wrote in message$bc2.891@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> Letting
> a baby sleep in your bed has led to lots of suffocated babies, BTW.

Oh brother. Here we go--let's bash co-sleeping while we're at it.
--
Be well, Barbara --> who doesn't co-sleep, but supports those who do!
Mom to Mr. Congeniality (7), the Diva (5) and the Race Car Fanatic (3)

I have PMS and ESP...I'm the bitch who knows everything! (T-shirt slogan)

Cathy Weeks · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 520

Dr Steve wrote:
> Breastfeeding is wonderful for the developing baby. It also promotes
dental
> decay if the milk is allowed to sit in the baby's mouth while
sleeping.
> Breastfeeding a baby to sleep after they have teeth is a big NO-NO.
Letting
> a baby sleep in your bed has led to lots of suffocated babies, BTW.

well, no, actually, there haven't been "lots of suffocated babies". A
few, yes, and there is a greater risk of it than if the baby is in a
separate bed, but it's not led to many.

For what it's worth, there have been LOTS more babies that have died of
SID in a crib in a room by themselves.

The "safest" method has been to have the baby nearby (like in a
bassinet) next to the adult bed, but having the baby in bed, IF the
parents observe some safety precautions, isn't terribly risky (higher
risk, yes, seriously dangerous, no)

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

JOLINDA RANEY · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1626

Yes, I agree. I worked in Pediatric dentistry for over 2yrs, and have seen
many breast fed children with caries. I have also seen many bottle fed
babies with caries. It is not that the dentist is against breastfeeding, not
at all. The fact is, you eat or drink something other than water before
bedtime, or during the night, and don't brush, you are at higher risk of
developing decay. A good friend of mine is still breastfeeding her nearly
3yr old son throughout the night, and his teeth are awful looking. He has
decay on his lateral incisors. She doesn't take him to the dentist because
she is afraid he is going to be freaked out. If a child is thirsty, he or
she can ask for a drink of water in the middle of the night:)

"Dr Steve" wrote in message $bc2.891@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> Breastfeeding is wonderful for the developing baby. It also promotes
> dental decay if the milk is allowed to sit in the baby's mouth while
> sleeping. Breastfeeding a baby to sleep after they have teeth is a big
> NO-NO. Letting a baby sleep in your bed has led to lots of suffocated
> babies, BTW.
>
> --
> ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
> Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
> Troy, Michigan, USA
> ....................................................
>
> This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes
> only.
> Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
> the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you
> in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
> your health.
> ......................
> wrote in message
> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> Okay, today we went to the local Pediatric Dental specialist - she
>> claimed that our son has the need for several fillings and blamed it
>> squarely and with no hestitation on the fact that my wife is still
>> breastfeeding him (even overnight - he sleeps with her/us).
>>
>> At first we blamed ourselves (I admittedly blaming my wife as it was
>> her who let our son start sleeping with us, much against all the advice
>> we'd been given by experienced parents).
>>
>> A couple of hours later however, my wife reckoned that this dentist was
>> (milking the situation - no pun intended). She just couldn't believe
>> that natural breast milk would create these cavities (its a new
>> surgery, very plush and the dentists there are quite young(ish)). This
>> (female) dentist, said that it was a common misconception to continue
>> to breastfeed after the first 5months. I took this "professional's"
>> opinion straight at face value - but call us cynical (we are in North
>> Africa), and the 'truth' isn't always forthcoming (she was trained in
>> Paris, young, educated but we both suspect not herself a mother).
>>
>> Later that afternoon (after looking around on the internet) I'm now
>> beginning to wonder whether this female dentist had a clue about what
>> she was talking about. According to most of what I've read, there
>> isn't any link between breastfeeding and cavities (though I have read
>> that carbs mixed with the milk causes cavities, as does sugar, lack of
>> dental hygiene etc).
>>
>> We're beginning to wonder whether a second or third opinion (of course
>> from alternative dentists) would be best before we jump into putting
>> our son through any dental surgery. Preferably from a dentist who *is*
>> pro-breastfeeding.
>>
>> Incidentally, we think that what he has developed, is probably a
>> combination of hereditary and lack of brushing.
>>
>> P.S. I've just talked to my wife who admitted that this dentist made
>> her cry for hours after this visit (example, when we were with the
>> dentist, our son wanted to feed and my wife naturally let him -
>> straight away the dentist told us this was VERY wrong).
>>
>> Please advise.
>>
>> Many thanks.
>>
>
>